Punk IS Dead
 

Punk is dead. I know there's a lot of things that seem to show this as not being true, but that's because I believe many people view punk as a genre when really it should be viewed as a movement. Like any movement it occured only for a certain period of time and like any good movement it left around remnants after it was gone.

I kinda consider it to have died as a movement around 85-86 with the end of the first wave of Hardcore Punk and the development of thrash metal and crossover thrash and the East Coast hardcore scene growing in prominence and popularity. From there hardcore sort of detatched itself from punk and grew into it's own genre, and even began to have it's own subgenres, such as metalcore, post-hardcore, noise rock, and deathcore. I've met quite a few hardcore kids and scene kids who have absolute zero respect for original punk rock or even older hardcore saying it's "Gay". I'm not saying this is the majority of people who enjoy this music because I am one of the people who do, it's just that to me when attitudes like that have developed anywhere within a scene about it's history, it means that music's time has come.

RIP Punk. You were a poet, prophet, and hero to many

Do you consider punk to be dead? If so why?

For a dead genre you don't seem to want to talk about much else.

what have i started!?

What's your point?

wat?

It was a great movement while it lasted.

Why did punk die with the hardcore movement? You explicitly acknowledge deathcore, post-hardcore (I would add emo/screamo and others would throw some on, too, I'm sure) so why do these evolutions count less than hardcore? Your subjective taste? That's cool. Then maybe the punk sound that you enjoy is dead. I can see that. The revivals are sorta based around post-punk and sorta silly in general, so that's fair.

But punk is dead discussions are just like rock is dead discussions - yeah, we're not gonna get a bunch of hippies smoking dope and playing sitars on a national or global scale again anytime soon, but that's because the music has evolved with the times.

And why is respect for the old acts the qualifier for good punk? I mean, yeah, for me, a qualifier for good punk is not being a homophobe, so that "gay" used as slur comment is displeasing, but I thought punk has always been about kicking the asses of the old vanguard and making your own. I might not like the sound of the new guys either, but to say that the screamo movement to name just one is not a strong countercultural movement based in the basic ideals (if not the sound) of punk rock is just false in my eyes.

Which one the 70's UK Punk Rock, 80's American Hardcore Punk or the 90's Green Day/Sum 41 movement?

You're putting quite a bit of words in my mouth don't you think? I never said having respect for old acts was a qualifier for good punk. What I was saying was, is that these kids have no respect for PUNK even though they wouldn't have their ****ty subgenres which are NOT PUNK without it. It's like people who dig Lil Wayne and Drake but think Run DMC are corny because they're old. Also, yeah punk EVOLVED into hardcore and the infinite subgenres that's my point. Whenever a single cellular organism evolves into a multicellular organism, it DOES become less of a single cellular organism because it's not a single cellular organism anymore. That's just common sense.

So your argument doesn't really hold any water bro. As a matter of fact you kind of just stated the same thing I did.

And just by the way, I don't hate hardcore or it's subgenres, hell, I even dig a lot of beatdown and deathcore stuff even though those are frowned upon by a lot of people who dig oldschool hardcore and punk. So this isn't me acting like an old fart towards more recent evolutions of punk, this is me just stating an observation I've made that punk isn't a GENRE it WAS a MOVEMENT and it died

Crossover Thrash? Deathcore? Who comes up with this sh*t? Sorry, I'm old and I'm running out of time so I can't be bothered to worry whether the punk rock I'm listening to is Speed Flap or Post Garbage Can. I just want to jump around and ROK out.

I do remember back in those 'Punk as Movement' days when some kids would get really snotty about what was and wasn't punk. Black Flag was hilariously notorious for playing sets of heavy metal and psychedelic covers whenever they faced an elitist punk crowd.

I understand what you're saying about being part of something, where maybe a particular type of music transcends a moment in time and becomes something more than the sum of it's parts, but I don't think that phenomenon is unique to punk rock. And I don't think it's fair to kill Punk off as a legitimate genre just because that moment has passed.

Punk is Punk, no matter how many dizzying sub genres you want to divide it up into and, as such, I think it's alive and well and always will be. Just one more crayon in the musical box, as it were.

first and foremost...joy circumcision did not add a single word to your mouth....all he added was a couple of genres that would obviously be added to you weird genre breakdown list

second thumbs up to Holerbot6000 :)

before i go off on your points...i have a question....what is the punk movement?

the "punk is dead" bullshit started nanoseconds after the where did punk come from argument started

but i would love to read what your idea of the punk movement is before i state my case

in closure


this is a band called 7 Seconds...they were from the shitiest redneck, backwoods town in Nevada....Reno

this song was first released on a comp in 1984 by BYO records....and basically sums up my argument

but please enlighten me as to what the punk movement was and why it is dead

Actually Black Flag's my favorite band and I dig a lot of stuff other then punk so it's not like I'm a snotty elitist about it. It's perfectly fair to kill punk off. It's dead. Its spirit EXISTS in the dizzying subgenres, but a father and mother's spirit exists within their child, that doesn't mean the child is a carbon copy of their mother and father. I'm a eighth Native American, the blood and spirit of my great grandfather is within me, but that doesn't mean I could start a tribe with a bunch of other white people with a slight bit of Native American in them. I COULD but how the hell could we possibly say we're a Native American tribe when we're all related to people who slaughtered Native Americans as well?

Same thing with punk and the subgenres.

Also, your statement about Black Flag is a bit spun. They didn't play psychedelia and metal specifically to piss off punk elitists, they played it because that's what they began to enjoy playing and it pissed off the punk elitists who were their fans and after awhile they obviously begun to get a kick out of it.

Using a song to express your opinion about something? This isn't Facebook bro.

Also, I already stated in my OP what the punk movement was and why it's dead. Did you only read the title of this thread?

You're seeming a bit ignorant here mate

Guy who joined 2 days ago trying to tell guy who's been here for over 2 years what's what on MB: priceless.

Actually you didn't explain what the "movement" was, all you did was say that it was a movement. Did you not read your own OP bro?

Your Charlie Brown picture is stupid
Also I've been here seven years

Are you saying you have multiple accounts here then, bro?

This is the OP's argument as I interpret it:

"I have an arbitrary definition of punk rock as a movement and I put its arbitrary ending date at the end of the eighties because that's when the hardcore movement died, which is the last leg of punk rock according to my arbitrary definition of what it was as a movement - a definition I refuse to present for critical analysis. Now explain to me why I am right under my own definition."

"But OP, there are competing definitions for what the punk movement is. For example, I would say..."

"NOPE. Discuss as I stated in my OP IS punk, not this false "spirit of punk." Punk be dead!!"

OP, it's difficult to take you or your topic seriously when you make up these non-falsifiable definitions and have no elasticity of opinion, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say that there was some miscommunication on someone's part, so just provide for everyone a couple things to debate over:

1. What is your definition of punk rock music as a movement? Include sonic influences, cultural values, etc. Why is your definition better than everyone else's?

2. If your definition is superior, then extend it into other major umbrella genres such as prog, metal, and psychedelic rock - are these movements in any way dead because they have their own offshot descendents in the form of subgenres?

3. What does it really matter if punk is dead or not?

No it's okay. I'll just **** off back to where I came from. You obviously all hate me and my ideas are retarded so nevermind. Sorry I wasted everyone's time

^awesome...so i don't have to write my winded argument about underground music and how you should get off you ass and go look for it rather than sit around an internet forum and bitch about how Black Flag was the end all of punk rock.....

If only there was some kind of filter we could use to weed out idiots like this before they join forums. Then we wouldn't have a problem.

Haha, someone hasn't gone to any local concerts. Punk is very much alive.

Wtf? I have to be 1/8 Native American to listen to punk music? :confused:

kthxbye

^ This. :beer:

80's. Best time for punk really

What did it have to compete against? Michael Jackson and Madonna... pfft no wonder it was the best time for Punk.

Gotta stop thinking black thoughts.

^good point somebody should tell these fucks that punk is dead.....time to get a damn job

Keith Morris is a poseur. Totally ripping off Blink 182. Get a life dreadlocked poseur. Punk should pack their bags and get ready for the afterlife.

:laughing:

I miss NOFX
 

Once they stopped playing Warped tour, i was convinced

Bad Brains is still touring. I have friends who have an entirely punk record label. Punk is alive, and it may look different, but I believe with the aging it is just getting better and better. Try telling Keith Morris that punk is dead.

Well, you obviously don't know much about punk music, besides the big names that everyone knows. Punk is very much alive, and not only in the genre, but also in the movement. No one here even mentioned Crust punk, or thrash. Also, where did you get the silly idead that deathcore and metalcore are derived from punk. Seriously, start getting informed.

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Punk is dead? what a ****ing joke!
Did you wanna sound cool or were you just high on coke?
Since when do you own it to call it quits?
Was it not punk last night's show with the kids?

Or maybe you're right and we're just dumbass ****s
Cause we went to your show and we payed 20 bucks
To see a washed up loser the kids used to look up to
I'll speak for myself and say I ****ing hate you!

If punk is dead why don't you ****ing quit?
Stop acting like you're the ****ing ****!
Cause your time is up you lame old ****ing prick
Suck it up jerk and ****ing deal with it

You're ****, and your band is dead
And your reunions are just ****ing sad
Talk ****, but these kids still shout
And we're still part of what punk is all about

We're still part of what punk is all about

If it's dead why dont you go away?
I guess you've got some bills to pay
And I'm sure it isn't cheap to pay for all your junk
Still we're the ones who're dead and you're the king of punk
Right?

You're ****, and your band is dead
And your reunions are just ****ing sad
Talk ****, but these kids still shout
And we're still part of what punk is all about

The Skrotes

No one mentioned thrash because thrash isn't punk.

It's p funny that everyone who says that listens to/writes horrible music.

Thrash metal was influenced by hardcore punk, and was an early trait of the genre formation in the 70s and 80s, along with early roots of heavy metal. It had an effect on metal bands to come because of the influence it had on the rest of the genre...

Wow, what an inspiring song. Makes me believe punk is dead actually...

Thanks for telling him, he needed desperately to be seriously informed. :)

I don't know about that, in the very beginning the Rezillos, the Buzzcocks and The Ramones weren't like that. It wasn't till later when it turned more and more hardcore that Punk became like that.

The Sex Pistols were the ones that really gave punk its "fuck off and fuck everything image" they were infamous for it on UK TV and media in the late 1970s. But then again The Doors, Iggy Pop and MC5 were doing the same thing a decade before and all are big influences on punk. Bands like the Buzzcocks were a bridge between punk and new-wave so behaved, whilst bands like the Dead Kennedys bridged the gap between the Sex Pistols and hardcore punk. The Ramones always seemed to be about having a good time in a heavily drug induced way and influenced a whole load of the future more commercial punk bands.

Punk is a rejection of norms, not being the biggest ******* you can be. The Sex Pistols were an act.

A lot of punk is a political stand, especially when it came forth. I don't think The Sex Pistols were an act. They brought forth questionable issues and addressed the "rot in society", as did The Clash, Dead Kennedys, Buzzcocks etc.