Punk Wars
 

I was thinking we should have one for this forum as well.

Seeing first who else would be interested... before I start... see if it will bring in enough people..

So who is in?

Ooh, I'm in.



Edit: Sorry, I haven't been on in awhile; I hope this is how it still goes.

In

No, album versus album. Similar to what the Metal Wars is like.

Gotcha.

Thinking same idea, 4 albums. 2 vs. 2.

Thinking the first 2 albums I should pit against each other.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-H9aQo-K2mN...rains-roir.jpg

vs.

http://zupes.com/img/Black%20Flag%20-%20Damaged.jpg

Two bands that were important parts to the early days of Hardcore. Both influential albums. But which one will go on to the next round.

Bad Brains s/t is a classic. Damaged by Black Flag is also a classic. I like this game.

For me Bad Brains is the clear winner. I love Bad Brains in general infinitely more than Black Flag. That is, I can't think of any Black Flag album that I like more than any Bad Brains album.

As for this particular contest, the large amount of Reggae-Made-By-Suburban-Americans on the Bad Brains album is off-putting. I wish there was less of it for sure. Still, for me, the Bad Brains album is very good and the Black Flag album is only pretty good. Rollins did his best to propel the band and he succeeded but Black Flag never played tight punk songs like Bad Brains. They were incapable. Rather, they tried to do something different (sped-up blues rock) and that different thing could not compete with Bad Brains who made a distinctively new sound.

Bad Brains: 1
Black Flag: 0

Bad Brains for sure, mainly because there is a bit more, touches on some reggae which is a plus for me, and it's just more out of control raw punk. Black Flag is still really good, but Bad Brains are still the bigger kings of hardcore in my book.

2 - Bad Brains
0 - Black Flag

I respect Bad Brains but their s/t has never really grabbed me on that gut level the way Damaged does.

Bad Brains: 2
Black Flag: 1

It's kinda like 1a vs. 1b for me.

I have to give a slight edge to Bad Brains, though. Just such a heavy and aggressive album. Also, raggae mixed in? Sick.

Bad Brains 3
Black Flag 1

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8...ovjto1_500.png
"Don't you know a rumble ain't a rumble without me?"

as Janszoon said...i have oddles of respect for Bad Brains....but very little of what they've done has really stuck with me....there is no denying that pay To *** is by far one of the greatest hardcore songs ever played.....and i love the song and story behind Sacred Love (i know it's not on this album :) )....but for the most part i never really got into Bad Brains....Black Flag on the other hand...is everything i love about punk rock....great bass and drums to keep that perfect beat....Ginn's amazing guitar....i mean fucking amazing....i know he grew into a complete introverted ******* who seriously thinks he is the end all of everything having to do with LA punk in the 80s....but in my opinion he seriously helped start what i define as noise rock....evident on this album but blown to the moon with My War.....when i'm driving one of these 80000 pound trucks and Rise Above comes up on random.....i have to either skip the track or pull over.....that song alone still raises my blood pressure from the first note....one bad track on this album...sorry but i can't stand this version of Depression.....the rest of the album is damn near perfection for me

Bad Brains 3
Black Flag 2

I have to side with bob and janz on this one, as much as I respect Bad Brains for what they did to help cement the hardcore genre as well as influence metal, I just never found myself getting into their s/t as much as Damaged. Funnily enough I never got much into any other Black Flag albums, but I still pull out Damaged on occasion when I've had a bad day.

Bad Brains - 3
Black Flag - 3

Two exceptional albums but given the choice I find the Bad Brains debut more amazing.

Bad Brains- 4
Black Flag- 3

I like both albums, but this is a no-brainer for me. Bad Brains are just way more fun to listen to, and there's something to be said for their virtuosity. I rarely ever want to listen to Damaged all the way through. It doesn't hit as hard, and I can only take so much of Rollins' delivery.

Bad Brains - 5
Black Flag - 3

Never been a big fan of hardcore, but the early stuff sometimes speaks to me. I've actually never listened to a full album by any of these bands, so these are only my first impressions. There were definitely some great moments on the Bad Brains album, but a lot of stuff that just went by in a blur much like a lot of hardcore does, and the reggae parts just felt dull and pointless. I might dig it more on subsequent listens, but it wasn't anything special this time around. Damaged doesn't sound like it's gonna be my favorite punk album of all time or anything, but it was better than Bad Brains. The noisy production gave it a grittier feel that was cool too.

Bad Brains - 5
Black Flag - 4

I am a big fan of both these albums, both for different reasons. I love Bad Brains for their hyper speed and high amounts of energy. "The Big Takeover" has to be one of the best songs in the entire style, that drum beat that builds up just gets the blood pumpin'.

I have massive respect for that Bad Brains album, but the dub parts do kind of kill the flow for me. They are great songs in their own way, but I wanna hear BB more for their hardcore. "Sailin' On", "Pay to Cum" and "The Big Takeover" = hell yeah.

But, I love that Black Flag album for it's shear psychotic feel, Rollins screams are just manic and insane, and Ginn's guitar goes along perfect. This album is like a trip to the nut house. It has that something to it that just makes a person wanna go mad.

I was hard pressed when I picked these. Both are essential albums, but I find myself going back to "Damaged" a lot more. When Bad Brains are at their peak, they are the more energetic band, some of the songs on the album (the 3 I mentioned above) are better in part. But as a whole, "Damaged" just edges it out for me.


Black Flag - 5
Bad Brains - 5

Good idea, I don't want to sound sanctimonious, but I would argue that most classic punk stuff isn't on albums, but rather singles & ep's, so I don't know if albums are the best way to represent a punk war

(ie; Dk: Police Truck, never on an official album, Holiday in Cambodia the singles version, not on an album. Misfits, Halloween, Killing Joke - turn to red, and on and on.)

Underground genres don't adhere to the norm, so you might want to consider adding a lot of singles & ep battles cheers.

Anyways Black Flag: Damaged.

^Clearly too sanctimonious to qualify as a vote.

Bad Brains: 5
Black Flag: 5

I was thinking of adding some 7" Ep's, and other stuff.... for now though, just going to keep it simple. Will add a few of those in though at some point.


and it is:

Black Flag: 6
Bad Brains: 5

I love both albums a lot and even though they're roughly the same length of time Damaged seems a lot longer. I think it's because the last 2 or 3 songs on that album really feel like they drag on forever and dare I say it get boring after a while. I've lost count of the times I've listened to this album and turned it off during those 2 songs.

In fact second half of albums that feel more like an endurance test is something Black Flag had plague them throughout their whole career.

Bad Brains on the other hand, the slow reggae bits really help contrast the fast aggressive bits and make they seem more dynamic and the albums over before you know it.

With Damaged I just want it to end
With Bad Brains it leaves me wanting more
So I'm going with Bad Brains for that reason alone because nothing else separates them in my eyes.

Bad Brains: 6
Black Flag: 6

*

Bad Brains: 6
Black Flag: 6

Time to get coffee into all of ya.

Someone break this tie. I wanna move onto the next one.

p.s. How do I get bigger avatars. Someone hook me up.

It's not a tie. I don't think William_the_Bloody's vote was counted. I believe the actual score should be:

Bad Brains: 6
Black Flag: 7

Right here. :)

Next!

Naw, all votes were counted.

I just recounted. Is indeed tied.

Confusion came when Engine didn't count william's vote. I corrected that one, and then another vote came in.

Still tied.

Urban tied it up.

count it again with mod votes counted as 2 :)

So we just give it to Black Flag this time...

works for me.

Okay. Onto another....

I pick these next 2 cause they are 2 great albums to come out of California. Stevo Soto was a part of both bands as well.

http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__...dolescents.jpg

vs.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5...jqjno1_500.jpg

I am predicting I know where this one is going to go.... but I have been surprised before..

Adolescents 100%

Adolescents 1
Agent Orange 0

Adolescents 1
Agent Orange 1

Not really a fan of either band, but I guess I'll go with the surfing music- Agent Orange.

Dude, gotta update the vote count.

Adolescents - 1
Agent Orange - 2

Never been a big Adolescents fan, particularly that album, but I've always really liked what I've heard from Agent Orange so I'm going to have to go with them by default and hunt down that album.

Adolescents - 1
Agent Orange - 3

I regard that Adolescents album as a punk rock masterpiece. That was one of those albums that I wore out two tapes on over time.

Adolescents- 2
Agent Orange- 3

Adolescents are pretty sweet, but the vocals have that snotty, adolescent (imagine that) thing going on that gets kinda dull after a while. Maybe if I was 16 it wouldn't bother me. They've got some great pop hooks, but a lot of the time their songs have that sort of generic punk thing going on that makes a lot of it unmemorable. Agent Orange on the other hand have got this amazing surf-music-for-the-damned thing going on. It just has this dark quality to it that makes it really stand out. And "Bloodstains" is just sick nasty to the max.

Adolescents - 2
Agent Orange - 4

I'm ashamed to admit that I haven't heard the Agent Orange album. I know one song by them, but never heard them beyond that. Anyone wanna hook a brother up?

i gotta say i'm surprised at the discontent towards Adolescents...like Fred said the self titled album to me....is practically a punk rock greatest hits album....not a single bad track....personally i always felt that Tony Cadena's vocals were very representative of Orange County punk rock....much like Jack Grisham's vocals on the early TSOL albums

i do agree that Bloodstains is an amazing song....but for thats about where it ends for Agent Orange.....plus the whole Offspring thing really bugged me

Can upload the album later, but here it is on youtube.

I just about ignored 80s west coast hardcore. This was just a personal circumstance and I know that the bands that came from there in the early 80s were as 'important' as the east coast ones but I still didn't really like them minus a few extraspecial bands. To me, Adolescents was not one of those.

Once I ingested the west coast stuff, Adolescents sounded good but relatively dull. Monotone, sorta lazy, made for bored kids on lotsa dope who lived near the beach in Cali, skated in empty swimming pools, etc.

RE this battle, I like the Agent Orange album a lot more. It did and and still does excite me more than the Adolescents s/t. The Agent Orange album had more going on that appeals to me.

Overall, nationally, it was all just a bunch of kids screaming so American 80s hardcore is only a matter of the fine points.

Adolescents: 2
Agent Orange: 5