Quote:
So I take it you're not for raising the debt ceiling?
|
I'd talk about this.... but that's too good a way of derailing this thread.
Quote:
The Punks on the other hand instead envisioning the Garden of Eden saw a post-Apocalyptic world. During that the time Punk began the economy was tough, there was a Cold War that was always presenting the scenario that a nuclear war could wipe out civilization.
|
1. The Cold War was already in full swing when hippies got their start.
2. By the time Punk took off, de-stalinization was decades old, the sino-soviet split solidified by Nixon's (Kissinger's, really) ping-pong diplomacy, and China had declared Soviet Social Imperialism the gravest threat to Socialism (or the New Democratic Revolution, if you prefer).
3. Although we can argue the centrality and importance of The Ramones, they are a good yardstick to measure punk with; their debut came in '76. This was the year of the Gang of Four, after which China became much, much more in looking.
...so, it'd be more accurate to say the Hippie movement, whilst in full swing, existed in a much more dire geopolitical climate.
Quote:
Not all Punks imo were in the beginning weren't haters but started out cynical and angry about the state of the world so they lean toward a post-Apocalyptic image as a way of saying look where we going - to hell in a hand basket. They wore ripped shirts, safety pins, spikes, piercings, had Mohawks or spiked hair cuts, imo this was what people would wear in a post-civilized world.
|
Eh? I reject this, and the notion that (early) punk was some sort of quasi-Situationist movement. The punk subculture emerged in an era of crass consumerism (which remains) which differed from earlier decades of crass consumerism due to the beginning of multiculturalism and sweeping demographic change, so kids, instead of identifying with what we could loosely term traditional culture, took their identity from music instead of heritage. It was simply a way of differentiating themselves from others; same as the rituals performed by Orthodox Jews or observant Muslims.
Quote:
I really can't make an blanket statement to include everything the punk movement, (e.g. when the Punk movement start out some were middle class kids who like to dress up like punks and others were poor and lived poor) but it how I see one aspect of it being opposite of hippie movement.
|
Of course not all punks were hippies or influenced by hippies (see revival skinheads); however, Jello Biafra admits to being influenced by hippies, and Penny from crass admits to having been a hippie. The politics of early left wing punks was influenced by hippie culture and I don't see enough differences between it and the concurrent late 70s far left politics to warrant a seperate category.
Regarding class; let's be frank, kids from poor backrounds rarely have the funds or time to indulge artistic inclinations, and to participate in an underground movement certainly requires plenty of both.
