Lord Larehip

You mean you didn't know punk was dada?? You've heard of the band Cabaret Voltaire, right? You know what that is? It was a gallery where dada anti-art was first exhibited to the public in Zurich 1916. One of the founders, Marcel Janco, explained, “At the Cabaret Voltaire, we began by shocking common sense, public opinion, education, institutions, museums, good taste, in short, the whole prevailing order.” That's punk, man! The word "dada" is meaningless but is also Romanian for "yeah yeah" as in our "yeah whatever."

But the idea that dada is essentially meaningless or random is quite fitting for Dada itself as it rejected art with deeper meanings and rejected such concepts as a “masterpiece.” Dada art was deliberately superficial. What you saw was what you got. Whatever meaning you got from it was your interpretation alone. Another interpretation was just as valid. And if you got no meaning from it, that was just as valid as any meaning one found. Dada artists never tried to explain their pieces and often because they couldn’t, it was often randomly generated. While traditional art laughs at the child who paints a random image and, when asked it is, replies, “I won’t know until I’m done with it,” Dada embraced this attitude as the very core its philosophy and even adding, “And I probably still won’t know.”

People don't think very much about how important art is in political philosophy and discourse--not to mention war. There's a reason dada was embraced among the anarchists but despised by the Nazis. Max Ernst was even imprisoned by the Nazis for his art. The Nazi vision for Europe and the world was not political but aesthetic, artistic. They didn't view Jews so much as a political danger as they did vermin, an infestation, in need of liquidation for the good of all. They had no place in Hitler's perfectly ordered vision.

Look at Nazi art and buildings. Always neat, clean, orderly. Always perfect specimens of Aryan superiority. All the buildings Albert Speer designed for Hitler were grand, majestic, lots of marble and tall, sturdy columns with floors so clean and uncluttered they looked uninhabited. There was a place for everything and everything was in its place. And if you didn't fit in--Jew, Gypsy, non-white, retarded, homosexual, disabled, even old--the only place for you was a mass grave.





What did the Nazis use to gas inmates? Zyklon B, a prussic acid, used for what? As insecticide. Again, they were killing vermin. No political justification needed. There was simply no place for them in the Third Reich. They were not part of Hitler's aesthetics.

In 1937, the Nazis removed all dada art from Germany. Here, they list what they called entartete kunst or degenerate art and one can read "dada" and "Ernst." Another name listed is George Grosz, another big dadaist.



Grosz depicted his fellow Germans as cruel, unfeeling, unthinking automatons driven only by greed and lust:


Ernst depicted "The Angel of Hearth and Home" as it danced across the barren European landscape bearing a striking resemblance to a swastika:


Dada was mostly anti-war and anti-politics, largely atheistic and anarchistic. Likewise were the punkers. One need only listen to DRI or Discharge (before the horrible "Grave New World") for proof. And who became the punks' biggest enemy? The Nazi skins. Remarkable how history repeats itself.

While punk might be over, the dada spirit lives on. Wherever there are conservatives and liberals--both cowards and hypocrites full of hate and cut from the exact same cloth--there will be war. And war there is war, there will be dada to rebel against it.

“…a phenomenon bursting forth in the midst of the postwar economic and moral crisis, a savior, a monster, which would lay waste to everything in its path. [It was] a systematic work of destruction and demoralization...In the end it became nothing but an act of sacrilege.”

Ah but isn't that how it always goes?


Anti - What Do You Do - YouTube
Anti was founded by Gary Kail who also founded a punk-noise unit called Zurich 1916.


Naked City - Thrash Jazz Assassin - YouTube


Naked City - Kaoru - YouTube

hip hop bunny hop

Anyone else a fan of Lord Larehips rather rambling & contradictory statements on war?



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(^^^ in that thread Lord Larehip strikes an exceptionally hawkish, pro-war stance)

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....srsly guise

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Burning Down

What does any of that have to do with this thread?

GuD

Does this sound ANYTHING like punk rock from the 70s? Does it sound like it wants to just make money by rehashing old sounds and filtering them through a poppy-lense to sell records, aided by swag-a-licious skinny jeans and a perfectly teased haircut?

What about this:



Or this:



Three completely different sounding punk bands with more or less the same ideoliges/values between each other as well as Television, The Ramones, or The Clash. These songs were released less than 5 years ago and are still relevant today, as are songs from punk's birth in the 70s.

You're attempting to discredit and diminish something pretty ****ing important to a lot of people and being straight up disrespectful in the process. You're contradicting yourself left and right, to the point where it's like you're trying to draw lines from 'Q' to '#4'. Punk Rock never died, it can't, it never even had a unified credo in the first place.

Dadaism? Really? You think a band like the Ramones or Buzzcocks gave a **** about DADA? Like, 90% of their songs are just about having a good time and girls. ****, Johnny Ramone was a REPUBLICAN WHO SUPPORTED REAGAN AND GEORGE BUSH (Sr. & Jr.). Granted, plenty of the more artsy punk bands such as BAUHAUS did love Dada, but that's not even close to being a defining attribute for every punk band ever. Even Peter Murphy says it was all BS:

In the end, Punk means different things to different people and saying it's "dead" is akin to saying that what punk bands and their fans are doing is pointless. If that's your opinion, fine, but you really don't deserve to know anything about punk at all then.

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Surell

Nope, but I learned about them. Same way you learned about them. Any less relevant? No. Moving on.


Dada is a pretty embracing movement to take on when you're trying to counter the previous movements. It actually traces back to some of the Beatles' and Bowie's songwriting, which doesn't seem like their biggest points of inspiration; though Bowie helped the Stooges out and the Beatles took from Phil Spector, they highlighted proggier elements of music that I don't think Punk rock would have exactly wanted to take cues from.

Hey, if you want to sit here and lie, that's fine, but I did point you to a source, go look back at my reply before last. But you're actually the one getting called on bullshit here, I'd like to not be projected upon.

Oh, you didn't, my bad, I just misunderstood you when you said:

How do you figure? Is it because I didn't agree?

Yeah, like Hip Hop. And since I'm not listing enough documentaries for you, here.

You didn't play when or where the Ramones played, as the Ramones or their peers. That's possibly why.

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Lord Larehip

If you learned about them the same way I did then how can you know their artistic predilections if I didn't?

No, you're thinking of Magritte. Paul is a big Magritte fan. That's not dada, I hope you know. Magritte was not a dadaist. There's a big difference between:



and:



Now, gee, which picture would you be more likely to see on a punk album cover? We already know which one appeared on a prog band's album cover (although not a very good prog band IMO),

Surell

I was highlighting the fact that you believed that your learning was somehow superior to mine, or that mine was irrelevant. I don't believe what you're saying is irrelevant, I just don't agree with it.



I was actually talking about George, though it may be pretty loose, but he picked "While My Guitar Gently Weeps" out of a random page of a book, essentially, if I remember a part of Living in the Material World correctly.

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Neapolitan

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