No punk today
 

Green Day isn't even punk--get real. Grunge blew donkey cock. I don't know what the crap is they call punk today. There is no punk today. Don't make me laugh til I cry.


Nihilistics After death - YouTube


No Trend - Do What You're Told - YouTube


Tar Babies - Be Humble / Native Son - YouTube


Verbal abuse disintegration - YouTube

And that's basically how it's done--son.

Is today a holiday or something?

It tries to sound like music today. F-uck that.

Is "It tries to sound like music" day a state holiday or something?

With people playing real chords and singing. F-ags.

I don't know what you're going on about, the punk scene is alive and well in Louisville. People still go crazy and mosh, people still make noise. It appears you're mostly just mad about punk changing.

Oh right, it's one of those threads again.

I'm so confused about this thread...punk is absolutely alive today...

It's turned into classic rock.

Led Zeppelin says, "**** the capitalist oppressors!"

I find it fascinating that the only time IMO that LL really seemed to know what he was talking about was the History of Bubble Gum thread

I feel like this thread should have been posted in 2004.

Do they mosh with bats? I can imagine them saying "Oi, I got me Louisville slugger... let's mosh."

Punk failed to serve its purpose, its raison d'etre. It tried, at least.

How about today? Is there punk today?

After lunch.

While punk music still exists, I feel underground hip hop has largely supplanted it as a driving force for cultural revolution.

It's because we have rap today that it is obvious punk failed in its purpose which was to destroy music so we wouldn't have to put up with this s-hit.

I can remember Public Enemy being called black music's first punk band.

Make of that what you will.

Rap/hip-hop has no sense of humor and cannot tell a story:


Killdozer - Cyst - YouTube


Killdozer : 'The Rub' - YouTube


Throbbing Gristle - Hamburger Lady - YouTube


DIE KREUZEN - ON THE STREET - YouTube

????? The first hardcore ever was Bad Brains and they were black.


Bad Brains - Big Takeover (Rock for light - track 01) - YouTube

I said the first BLACK MUSIC (I.E. ALL of their influences came from black music) punk band, not the first black punk band

Public Enemy was punk in the same sense that Bill Clinton was our first black president. If you're going to be called punk then be punk--that means your music sounds like punk and your listeners are predominantly punks. Was that the case with Public Enemy? No. The title goes to Bad Brains.

You're missing the point. Nobody was saying they sound like a punk band.
The comparison was used to say hip hop was bringing to black music in the 80s what punk bought to rock music in the 70s.

And I'm saying you're full of s-hit. Rap has no f-ucking idea what it's doing. Rap is the music industry's reality TV. It claimed to be "keepin' it real" but its goal was to make more money than anyone else. Does it decry the fact that it is a multi-billion dollar a year industry. Hell, no, it revels in it.

Punk was dada. Its purpose was to make anti-music. No slick production, no slick cover art, no $150 tickets in some big stadium, no $30 t-shirt, hell, just make your own. It wanted to destroy the concept of genres and hit records. It was all bulls-hit to make some label owner big money. With "music" gone and forgotten, something new could be built in its place--something of real value, something truly rewarding. Not just grabbing the money and running which is what turned rock into a phony bunch of overblown brain-cell killing malarkey that needed to be torn down in the first place.

Hip-hop? Hip-hop doesn't give a f-uck about anything BUT money. Hip-hop and punk are nothing alike. No common ground whatever. Punk failed in its objective partly because it despised becoming "generic." But that was its nature--to never be satisfied. The very thing it wanted to stave off is now upon us and it is too late to do anything about it. Punk today is just a rehash of territory long ago explored--the very thing real punk hated.

That made my day.

This is my favorite thread ever!

Stick to talking about music from the 1920s or whenever. It's clear you're way out of your depth when talking about anything from the last 30 years.

You mean you didn't know punk was dada?? You've heard of the band Cabaret Voltaire, right? You know what that is? It was a gallery where dada anti-art was first exhibited to the public in Zurich 1916. One of the founders, Marcel Janco, explained, “At the Cabaret Voltaire, we began by shocking common sense, public opinion, education, institutions, museums, good taste, in short, the whole prevailing order.” That's punk, man! The word "dada" is meaningless but is also Romanian for "yeah yeah" as in our "yeah whatever."

But the idea that dada is essentially meaningless or random is quite fitting for Dada itself as it rejected art with deeper meanings and rejected such concepts as a “masterpiece.” Dada art was deliberately superficial. What you saw was what you got. Whatever meaning you got from it was your interpretation alone. Another interpretation was just as valid. And if you got no meaning from it, that was just as valid as any meaning one found. Dada artists never tried to explain their pieces and often because they couldn’t, it was often randomly generated. While traditional art laughs at the child who paints a random image and, when asked it is, replies, “I won’t know until I’m done with it,” Dada embraced this attitude as the very core its philosophy and even adding, “And I probably still won’t know.”

People don't think very much about how important art is in political philosophy and discourse--not to mention war. There's a reason dada was embraced among the anarchists but despised by the Nazis. Max Ernst was even imprisoned by the Nazis for his art. The Nazi vision for Europe and the world was not political but aesthetic, artistic. They didn't view Jews so much as a political danger as they did vermin, an infestation, in need of liquidation for the good of all. They had no place in Hitler's perfectly ordered vision.

Look at Nazi art and buildings. Always neat, clean, orderly. Always perfect specimens of Aryan superiority. All the buildings Albert Speer designed for Hitler were grand, majestic, lots of marble and tall, sturdy columns with floors so clean and uncluttered they looked uninhabited. There was a place for everything and everything was in its place. And if you didn't fit in--Jew, Gypsy, non-white, retarded, homosexual, disabled, even old--the only place for you was a mass grave.

http://www.everseradio.com/wp-conten...s_00008129.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_8aFgYJqs0x...600/breker.jpg

What did the Nazis use to gas inmates? Zyklon B, a prussic acid, used for what? As insecticide. Again, they were killing vermin. No political justification needed. There was simply no place for them in the Third Reich. They were not part of Hitler's aesthetics.

In 1937, the Nazis removed all dada art from Germany. Here, they list what they called entartete kunst or degenerate art and one can read "dada" and "Ernst." Another name listed is George Grosz, another big dadaist.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_8aFgYJqs0x...nerate+art.jpg

Grosz depicted his fellow Germans as cruel, unfeeling, unthinking automatons driven only by greed and lust:
http://xaxor.com/images/Oil%20Painti...ge%20Grosz.jpg

Ernst depicted "The Angel of Hearth and Home" as it danced across the barren European landscape bearing a striking resemblance to a swastika:
http://www.artexpertswebsite.com/pag...ealism1937.JPG

Dada was mostly anti-war and anti-politics, largely atheistic and anarchistic. Likewise were the punkers. One need only listen to DRI or Discharge (before the horrible "Grave New World") for proof. And who became the punks' biggest enemy? The Nazi skins. Remarkable how history repeats itself.

While punk might be over, the dada spirit lives on. Wherever there are conservatives and liberals--both cowards and hypocrites full of hate and cut from the exact same cloth--there will be war. And war there is war, there will be dada to rebel against it.

“…a phenomenon bursting forth in the midst of the postwar economic and moral crisis, a savior, a monster, which would lay waste to everything in its path. [It was] a systematic work of destruction and demoralization...In the end it became nothing but an act of sacrilege.”

Ah but isn't that how it always goes?


Anti - What Do You Do - YouTube
Anti was founded by Gary Kail who also founded a punk-noise unit called Zurich 1916.


Naked City - Thrash Jazz Assassin - YouTube


Naked City - Kaoru - YouTube

Propagandhi - Haille Sellasse, Up Your Ass - YouTube

The ****s Live Chicago Garage Rock - YouTube

Let me preface this by saying How To Clean Everything is my absolute favorite album by Propagandhi.

But...
That album was '90s pop punk. And I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but it's not really serving a purpose in this thread. But kudos for mentioning it, because it strokes my own ego in that I love it.

You may be right. I first got into punk in the early '80s. It may even be true that there's no punk today, but perhaps that's because punk, like rock and roll, is kind of old school and not exactly relevant to today's zeitgeist. Let me see if I can find a more contemporary corollary.

Parts & Labor - Fractured Skies - YouTube

Banned Books - Dream Castle - YouTube

Great band in my opinion, but they're not something I would consider "punk". Maybe it's because I'm biased, I dunno. But when there are people out there that consider Paramore to be Punk, we have to draw a line somewhere.

That's part of my point. Punk wasn't something that was supposed to continue on indefinitely. Arguably the worst thing that could happen to punk is for music to keep on being punk in the same recognizable form as it took in the late '70s and early '80s or even '90s. Punk was essentially a spirit of defiance and creativity that often had a certain sound owing to the equipment and influences of the time. To continue on in that vein for decades upon decades is against the very spirit of the thing. The problem isn't so much that there is no punk today, but that there is in fact too much punk lingering around long after punk itself has ceased to be a meaningful form of rebellion. In order to find today's punk music, you have to stop listening for it in punk music.

wow...this is by far one of the best things i've heard in a while

So where do we go from here?
Which is the way that's clear?

The reason why you think punk is dead today is because you're not looking beyond the first world. Look at punk in China and the Taqwacore bands in the Middle East instead, these are places where the youth actually have reasons to form punk bands. The reason why punk is more or less dead in countries like the UK and the USA is because there's no real reason for it to be alive.