Are you sure you're not thinking about Grunge?

Y'all really have never been into the punk scene have you? Like, really been to an actual punk show? It ****ing reeks. I always had to stand at the back smoking to clear my air even though I was usually ****ing someone in one of the bands playing. I'm not in the scene anymore cause I learned to love myself. but it used to be super fashionable in the punk scene to pretend you were poor and never shower, hop trains, etc. Poverty is cute when you can turn it off.

No. I mean how can I? I live right in the middle of the Bible-belt in Alabama. All anyone cares about around here is Country, Gospel, and occasionally Pop music. Personally, I've never cared alot about the Punk scene, but even if I did, nobody else here does.

Aw, I feel you dude, it sucks doesn't it? The same kinda thing happened to me growing up, then I realised music taste isn't a good indicator of a person's character..

It kinda does. I don't hate anybody for having different tastes than me (in fact my main group of friends in High School were rednecks), I just wish I had a few friends that I can talk about music too and go to concerts on occasion.

I don't have a good answer for that. I can't recall any that did.

Basically, rebelling that like that wasn't necessarily... embraced with open arms.

That's too bad. My area has a great scene. Punk nowadays is more tied with indie rock and the college radio scene for more or less. The values have definitely evolved. It was never just one thing though. There was always bands like Flipper that just wanted to have a good time.

I wouldn't say that. I always see the definitions for "dressing punk" and "acting punk" to change with who you ask. Some don't do either, but still consider themselves punk. I'm not saying they aren't, but honestly I don't care wha label they put on themselves. What matters is the music, and what the individual stands for.

I mean, I don't really consider myself a punk but I do uphold the modernized values. I don't have a mohawk or chains or anything. I don't care. I don't care if you care. I love the music, I love the community, and that's all that matters.

I mainly started this to see how others view the music. Haha, doesn't seem to positive so far, but that's your guys opinion. I respect that.

I love a lot of punk. I just don't care for a lot of the chaff that comes along with the music. Sub-cultures in general, musical or otherwise, are generally best left behind once you've developed the ability to think for yourself (i.e. sometime in your late teens/early twenties at the latest).

That's true. But aside from all these what's punk/what's not, isn't the community of peers and musicians part of what makes this music so great?

Ive always thought Punk is all about rebelliousness.

Before punk bands even know how to play they have the attitude of punk as their main drive learning how to play tends to come second. ive always thought the spirit of punk is tied to the youth sense of defiance, alot of them speak of anarchy and follow a punk ethic that hardly stands for anything except pure rebelliousness.

I think this why most punks don't stay a punk forever, even the bands spearheading the movements eventually mature and break out of the punk movement because for most ppl being a punk was just a phase.

That's not to say you can't enjoy punk music without being a punk, even if you move on you can enjoy the music for what it is without tying your identity to it.

I think that's accurate for the most part. At least in the early days. I guess when the bands attitudes about life changed the fans' did too.

For instance, you really don't see as much law breaking from punks. Graffiti? Yeah, that's still common. But look at some of the biggest festivals of the genre. Riot Fest in Chicago and The Fest in Gainesville. Now look at the kind of people that go. It's mostly college kids and skate punks, right? They may not break rules but they'll rebel in other ways. I always saw part of this as punk fans being openminded. Mostly this means eradicating gender roles and being open to a wide variety of people. Gays, Muslims, feminists and a lot of other groups have found their place in the scene because of it.

Dude you generalise punks way too much. It's split off into so many different subgenres since it's inception that such blanket statements are entirely inaccurate.

True. I do too TBH. Much of my criticism is against early 70s punks -- or at least the British 2nd wavers from 77-78 who immediately followed the arty punks who would largely go on to make post-punk and sneer at the 2nd wavers -- and their missing the point of what made their forebears unique and interesting, instead opting to treat shallow rebellion and bad fashion as what punk was all about.

Also the early 80s hardcore kids, who would even further miss the point of the first scenes in London, New York, Cleveland, etc, to form cliques of gang-like hooligans bent on breaking whatever they felt like for no apparent reason and claim political beliefs that they barely understood, again treating punk as a fashion statement.

And now the high school morons who are more or less clones of the above two groups. Subcultures are by and large for kids who are just looking for a cookie cutter pseudo-personality to make up for their own lack of a sense of self. I did the same with 80s metal (to an extent, as I knew absolutely no one who listened to the same music who I could emulate) but by the time I was in my early twenties I'd discarded such silly notions, as did any punk with common sense.

I think the worst are pop punk kids who are absolutely clueless about the history, I saw someone on tumblr calll My Chem and some other ****ty bands "the holy punk trio" and wanted to ****ing die.

It never meant anything to me as a teen, back in the 70's, and it doesn't mean anything to me now. It was just music. Some of it sounded good to me at the time (and still does) and some of it sounded awful (and still does.)

I've always found the political/fashion/cliquish elements of punk to be more ridiculous than interesting.

Yeah, it's really hard to put them all in the same boat and I realize that. I guessthat in general they all have similar idealogy though.

Edit: As an addition, I kinda started this to see how other people viewed the music and it's fans. So yeah, that's just how I see it. I haven't observed much to change my opinion as of yet but I'm totally aware of all the sub-sub cultures involved with the sub-sub genres. A Crack Rock Steady fan will probably think and act a little different from an Orgcore fan and etc.

But on top of that, the individual fans always have differing views, so it really isn't fair to say all in one sect act/dress/think the same is it? And so, opinions differ. And I realize that.

It can be sometimes. I'll agree with that.

For me it depends on the style. Punk as a whole is raw emotion. Pure punk is about teen rebellion, hardcore is about anger, post-punk is a sadder genre, riot grrrl's about girl power.

I think that's partly true, but there's definitely a lot more covered than just that.

I think Punk is about being human and getting angry others for taking that away.

Very true.

Very true.

That's my problem with a lot of punk. Seems to me that all of the best punk bands left punk behind and went post-punk. PiL, Pere Ubu, Talking Heads, Gang of Four, etc sound like they represent the original punk musical philosophy more than any of the "punk" bands that came after ever did. I mean, I like 2nd wave and beyond punk plenty, but they seem to have missed the point.

To be fair, PiL does have Johnny Rotten in it.

And he is for more of a hilarious douchebag than any other punk ever was, and isn't that what's really important?

The thing about Johnny Rotten is he really drags on his r's.

Yeah I find it kinda hard to like stuff like that. I mean a few groups could play in the original style but for the most part post-punk and hardcore were way more original and "punk" than The Exploited or The Damned.

Even then, after the 80's I don't find an awful lot of hardcore bands I enjo (outside of post-hardcore, which is always great). It (the punk scene) just needs a refresher every once in a while, but it always delivers.

Don't forget that crust, powerviolence, emo, noise punk, sludge, folk punk, ska punk, and tons of other subs are part of the genre too. When I say "punk", I'm usually referring to the whole thing, not just bands that sound like the late 70's groups. In fact, I hardly ever listen to groups like this.