Why is "Post-Punk" even considered "Punk"?

TechnicLePanther · 05-27-2016, 05:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suzy Creamcheese

Are you serious with this shit? Punk, metal, and rap were all derivative of earlier music. All music is derivative of what has come before it, and there's nothing wrong with that.

Music isn't like technology. It's not like old music suddenly becomes worthless and obsolete when new stuff pops up. Whether new or old, it's all just a collection of sounds that different people enjoy being arranged in different ways. "The youth of today" shouldn't be shamed for finding what they like and listening to it, regardless of it's age or "originality".

I think his point was that there's no real "underground" music scene anymore. I say, I would consider all this weird meme music (vaporwave, chillwave, etc.) could be called that.

Oriphiel · 05-27-2016, 06:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TechnicLePanther

I think his point was that there's no real "underground" music scene anymore. I say, I would consider all this weird meme music (vaporwave, chillwave, etc.) could be called that.

Whether he's talking about underground or mainstream music, it boils down to the same old shit about talent and originality being dead. People criticized Rock 'n Roll for being a cheap extension of R 'n B. And then people criticized Punk for being a cheap extension of Rock 'n Roll. People always assume that the current generation has no originality, and it's only in hindsight that they fully understand everything that was truly going on.

The current underground scene is filled with all kinds of crazy, creative and amazing shit, drawing from all kinds of inspirations, and heading in all kinds of directions. Even someone like me that rarely ventures in modern territory has gotten a taste of it, and I've been surprised by some of the things I've been introduced to in Plug/Dub.

But hey, maybe I interpreted his post wrong. And really, it's not a big deal. I'm just shooting the shit here.

William_the_Bloody · 05-27-2016, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TechnicLePanther

I think his point was that there's no real "underground" music scene anymore. I say, I would consider all this weird meme music (vaporwave, chillwave, etc.) could be called that.

Yes that is what I am saying. I remember an interview by Joey Ramone that stated he put the Ramones together because everything was 7th generation Led Zeppelin. But back then there wasn't even a big time gap between the two bands.

I just find it strange to see pods of emo teenagers with skateboards looking similar to how I did when I was a teenager. It just makes me feel like music has hit some sort of cultural timewarp.

I blame the collapse of the music industry for this, than the youth of today. The creative destruction of technology through free downloading has made it next to impossible for an underground band to make the same profit and living than a band like Portishead or Bauhaus would have been able to have made back in the day.

I'm not really sure the music industry can be brought back to be honest, you could pass all the copyright laws in the world and I'm sure some guy halfway across the world would invent something that would allow people to download en mass for free.

It might just be one of those things.

Ol’ Qwerty Bastard · 05-27-2016, 12:35 PM

I completely disagree with that. Go on bandcamp for a minute, and look at all the artists who upload awesome new music there on a regular basis. Or go check out a hip-hop site like Datpiff or Hot New Hip-Hop and see just how many rappers are putting out quality projects while still going unnoticed by the mainstream audiences.

Just because people aren't creating new fads to accompany genres doesn't have anything to do with the so called underground not existing. The internet has made everything available at the click of a finger, so now just because you're a big fan of skate-punk, that doesn't mean you listen exclusively to skate-punk, because you can just as easily find bands that influenced your favourite bands, and have access to a giant catalogue of nearly any band or artist who made up that genre. On top of that, just because teenagers dress a certain way, doesn't mean they listen exclusively to the music you would associate the scene with. For example, I have friends who listen primarily to hip-hop that skate board and dress like skaters. I personally wear band shirts on a day to day basis, and they're usually strictly metal shirts (black metal, death metal, grindcore) but that's a very small portion of the music I listen to, despite what people would assume from my image.

In terms of creating something original, I think that's just a poor statement. There are TONS of acts around now that are blazing their own trails. The difference is that now, you don't need to get on the radio to make an impact, you don't need to be Led Zeppelin, or the Beatles, or the Ramones. You can make great music, and stay relatively unknown to the majority of the music world, and still influence so many acts while keeping a style that is unique to yourself. Just because there might not have been new genres coined, or terms to describe this music, doesn't mean in any way that it isn't being created.

William_the_Bloody · 05-27-2016, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

Do you actually know the difference between what your average 1st tier underground band makes now as opposed to twenty or thirty years ago? It's probably inarguable that they make less from album sales, but I'm dubious that they ever got enough from album sales to make much of a living off of anyway. I'm decently sure that underground bands have always survived off of touring.

Underground bands use to make a considerable amount off of album sales and merchandise, in fact, that's how they made a lot of their money touring. Touring would often leave these bands in a whole otherwise.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qwertyy

I completely disagree with that. Go on bandcamp for a minute, and look at all the artists who upload awesome new music there on a regular basis. Or go check out a hip-hop site like Datpiff or Hot New Hip-Hop and see just how many rappers are putting out quality projects while still going unnoticed by the mainstream audiences.

Well that's just it isn't, rap is old fogie music, but that's okay, it just means I'll
be cool for a little while longer.

"Hey did you check out that old geezer in the electric wheelchair wearing his NWA t shirt!" James.

"Sure did man! That was so fly! I can't wait to be as old has him, than I can get a low rider wheelchair with gold plated hubs, its going to hop up and down like a mofo! Only 40 more years, I can't wait!!!"

Ol’ Qwerty Bastard · 05-27-2016, 01:24 PM

I'm confused here. You think kids shouldn't be listening to as much music from the 80's and 90's as they currently are? What's wrong with appreciating the roots? I mean, there's an abundance of people who state "there's no good music anymore" but there's just as many people who are completely oblivious to the music scenes that existed before their time.

The Batlord · 05-27-2016, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by William_the_Bloody

Yes that is what I am saying. I remember an interview by Joey Ramone that stated he put the Ramones together because everything was 7th generation Led Zeppelin. But back then there wasn't even a big time gap between the two bands.

I just find it strange to see pods of emo teenagers with skateboards looking similar to how I did when I was a teenager. It just makes me feel like music has hit some sort of cultural timewarp.

I blame the collapse of the music industry for this, than the youth of today. The creative destruction of technology through free downloading has made it next to impossible for an underground band to make the same profit and living than a band like Portishead or Bauhaus would have been able to have made back in the day.

I'm not really sure the music industry can be brought back to be honest, you could pass all the copyright laws in the world and I'm sure some guy halfway across the world would invent something that would allow people to download en mass for free.

It might just be one of those things.

Do you actually know the difference between what your average 1st tier underground band makes now as opposed to twenty or thirty years ago? It's probably inarguable that they make less from album sales, but I'm dubious that they ever got enough from album sales to make much of a living off of anyway. I'm decently sure that underground bands have always survived off of touring.