probably not, I dunno, didn't read it

Ah. Makes more sense.

When we're asking wether they're punk or not, I'm mostly assuming we mean the dookie era stuff, and in that case it's defenitely punk (pop punk).

All punk is rock, but not all rock is punk.

Well, i mean them as a whole. If you go back and read my original post I said they started out as punk and eventually moved over into alternative. The only thing I'm changing in that statement is that they started out as pop punk. Not punk rock.

Not saying I disagree. Totally agree. But do you think all metal is rock, but not all rock is metal? Or do you think those genres have gained separation?

I also think all metal is rock, but not all rock is metal. However these umbrellas are so huge, I tend to use rock to refer to anything that doesnt fall under punk or metal, and punk and metal when reffering to those. If someone finds them big and different enough to seperate from rock, I wouldn't find it a weird idea. (A bit more so with Metal, as what would eventually be typical heavy metal is more removed from rock than typical punk rock). Man, Rocks a gigantic genre, so I wouldn't mind people deeming them seperate.

I think with metal, it's found its place as its own genre at this point. Especially when you consider how far removed a lot of the newer metal getting put out is. I think it comes down to the band really. Some are way too far removed from the genres roots in rock, while others are still lying somewhere on the line between hard rock and metal. But punk, I don't think the modern version of the genre is very far removed from its origins in rock.

I kind of agree, but it is what you said about those in between bands that I find it a bit hard to fully get behind.
With Punk however, it is indeed a lot less far removed from Rock, as it's first genre Punk Rock was pretty much just amateuristic simplified Rock N' Roll music. Then we got more aggressive and faster versions of that, after that some expirimentation in post-hardcore/postpunk and for the rest it mostly just mixed with other genres. Pop (Pop Punk, Skate Punk), Metal (Crossover Thrash, Crust Punk, Grindcore), Folk (Various types of Folk Punk), Ska (Ska Punk and some Third Wave Ska), Rockabilly (Punkabilly/Psychobilly), funk/dance music (dance-punk and some post-Punk), Emo (screamo), some cases of jazz and blues (not well versed on this but I've seen them), Electronic (Synth Punk, Digital Hardcore, bands like from the cradle to the rave), etc.
Metal on the other hand has gotten a lot of it's own very distinct sub genres pretty far removed from regular Rock. Which weirdly got most removed from it when they took punk aggression into metal.

I will go for punk, definitely!

I think they're a diverse band. They have some songs that sound punk, some that are more alternative, and some that are more mainstream rock. I guess it depends on the era/album.

Seems to be the more popular opinion.