Rancid aren't average - they sound bad.

I personally love Operation Ivy though. That is, I feel they sound well above average versus both their peers and current bands. To this day I have a hard time understanding why those Rancid guys did that stuff after being in such a good band.

too each their own. But I think Operation Ivy are not THAT great. They are not that terrible, but certainly nothing that will blow minds for more than one or two sittings. I got over that album as quickly as I got into it. Yeah, it is cool to hear, but it was a step back from what Rancid was doing.

Yeah, Tim Armstrong gets annoying, but he is not a bad songwriter, and showed moments on And Out.... that were actually good. Most Rancid was just The Clash worship and a feeble imitation of punk before it.... but it had moments of brilliance.

Operation Ivy showed potential, but it never fully formed. Was just typical sloppy punk with a bit of ska thrown in. Better by bands like Skankin' Pickle and Mighty Mighty Bosstones.

I'm really trying to find something to agree with here but it's hard.
Yeah, Op Ivy were a bunch of children who never fully formed their sound. I still like them a lot more than any of the other bands you mentioned, though. I can listen to their album mucho repeatedly and I don't even really like those other ska bands you named.

Maybe they're not THAT great but I guess what bothers me most is that, to me, Op Ivy seem and sound so genuine (and good) while Rancid seem and sound so fake (and not even good).

maybe it is just me being a cynical critic as usual. I just do not get the hype with Operation Ivy. Not that I disagree that Rancid are for the most part awful commercial punk. May just be the fact that the Rancid album I speak well off is such a nostalgic thing for me (first punk record i got, kid at school gave me the tape, along with Public Enemy "It Takes A Nation.... so some of it is just nostalgic bias).

Rancid for the most part are overrated. Just like Sublime.

I love common ground. Agreed! :beer:

But unlike Rancid, Sublime were showing signs of great musical growth and maturity... well, musically... lyrically I think Brad Nowell was always lacking. But the last Sublime album showed signs of a band finally starting to grow and mature as musicians. "Pawn Shop" is a great song, showed it well.

I think that is why people are still holding Sublime up to royalty level, they were showing signs of a band that had the making of brilliance, but Brad died before it could come to be.

I mean, there were worse bands than Sublime, but I still don't see why people treat them like gods.

Shit, I hate Sublime but I think we're just supposed to talk about Rancid on this here Rancid thread.

thread is boring anyways, mix it up.

I'm sure there's an even more dull Sublime thread somewhere where we could talk about bad music made by a heroin addict who managed to get fat before he overdosed to death but I'll give it a shot:

Rancid lamely tried to get press with their contrived haircuts, fake brit accent, silly tattoos, and music that's even worse than any of those things. But hey look, it worked! People like and even love Rancid.

So who's to blame? Bored kids living in the Clinton era who were given too much money to spend on bull**** music or.. something more diabolical?

Sorry, I think that's all I've got.. your turn.

Rancid were a band who got lucky, coming out in a period when punk suddenly became cool again - the Epitaph period and the Fat Wreck period... it was timing really. Green Day and "Dookie" made it cool for that time, and suddenly the mainstream was all over it. Had a band like Rancid came out in the 80's, they would have just been seen as the joke they are.