Music Banter

Go Back   Music Banter > The Music Forums > Rap & Hip-Hop
Register Blogging Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Welcome to Music Banter Forum! Make sure to register - it's free and very quick! You have to register before you can post and participate in our discussions with over 70,000 other registered members. After you create your free account, you will be able to customize many options, you will have the full access to over 1,100,000 posts.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-06-2007, 02:37 AM   #11 (permalink)
Music Addict
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,221
Default

Quote:
with a very pop-styled mix but it still has strong blues influences in terms of the notes used in the melodies and a lot of the song subjects
Now THAT I'll dispute. The songs in general use neither blues progressions nor blues-inspired melodies. And generally they don't sing about being "blue", either, any more than any other genre of music. In fact the lyrics are usually about topics the pretty damn opposite of being "blue".

Even if your argument in that respect holds, it fails to explain or justify the application of the term as it is frequently used: i.e., as an umbrella term to cover ALL music that have singing (as opposed to rap) over hip-hop drum beats.
Rainard Jalen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2007, 02:43 AM   #12 (permalink)
They call me Tundra Boy
 
DontRunMeOver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: In your linen cupboard.
Posts: 1,166
Default

I was just thinking, I'm going from the categorisation as they have them in record shops here. I think a lot of what is listed as R'n'B in America, but which sounds like pop, just gets put straight into the pop section in the UK so there might be some crossed wires between the two of us.

I'll go and have a look.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katyppfan View Post
When Pete plays it is 100% live , your music if that's what you call it doesn't sound so good either? so you can't really critercize can you ?
DontRunMeOver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2007, 03:05 AM   #13 (permalink)
They call me Tundra Boy
 
DontRunMeOver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: In your linen cupboard.
Posts: 1,166
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainard Jalen View Post
Now THAT I'll dispute. The songs in general use neither blues progressions nor blues-inspired melodies. And generally they don't sing about being "blue", either, any more than any other genre of music. In fact the lyrics are usually about topics the pretty damn opposite of being "blue".
Looking at the first list I found (http://www.onlylyrics.com/g_rnb1.php) which was the first one I saw.... There are some who do use a lot of blue (note: blue, not traditional 'blues') notes and themes and some who don't. The ones who don't are the same ones that would be straight in the 'pop' section over here anyway.

Now, I'm suggesting here that the majority of western music uses melodies, scales and harmonies which can be roughly categorised as:

Classical (straightforward major or minor scales and chord structures)
Folk (modes)
Jazz
Blues

In which most pop acts fall on the classical side, using the major or minor scales in a pretty straightforward way. From memory, the melodies for songs like 'Hit Me Baby One More Time' (Britney) and 'You And Your Hand' (Pink) wouldn't sound very out of place as the theme to some Rimsky Korsakov Russian nationlist stomper, in that they make very clear use of minor scales and are very on-note.

Back to the list,

some of the singers just sing pop music. It's major of minor melodies, maybe it has sad themes but then so does lots of non-blues music:

Monica (from what I remember hearing)
Jamelia
Kelly Rowland

Are all, from the music I've heard in the last few years, just pop. I'm pretty sure they are in the pop section in shops over here, not R'n'B. Either way, that's where I'd put them.

On the other hand.

Ashanti
Kelis
Amerie
Lemar
Beyonce
John Legend
Amy Winehouse
Corinne Bailey Rae
Mary J Blige

All have lots of blue notes and in their music. I'm not claiming they have BB King solos, sing about shootin' their woman or meeting the devil at the crossroads. But why would they? Most of the singers are women who live a long way from any rural intersections. A lot of the harmonies, rhythms and melodies ARE derived from blues* ... if they're not from there then where ARE they from?

*Ok, gospel too, which may be more classical than blues.


Quote:
Even if your argument in that respect holds, it fails to explain or justify the application of the term as it is frequently used: i.e., as an umbrella term to cover ALL music that have singing (as opposed to rap) over hip-hop drum beats.
If it's got rhythm (the drum beats) and it's got blues inspired singing (with which gospel-inspired vocals end up being grouped largely because the singers are also black) then the name R'n'B, I repeat, is not an unrealistic name to give it. Yes, I expect there are better names that it could have and some people have issue with the current name. But R'n'B is the name that has stuck and it's not a completely innacurate one.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katyppfan View Post
When Pete plays it is 100% live , your music if that's what you call it doesn't sound so good either? so you can't really critercize can you ?

Last edited by DontRunMeOver; 02-06-2007 at 03:25 AM.
DontRunMeOver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2007, 10:46 AM   #14 (permalink)
Music Addict
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,221
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DontRunMeOver View Post
Yes, I expect there are better names that it could have and some people have issue with the current name. But R'n'B is the name that has stuck and it's not a completely innacurate one.
Ok, your argument is fair enough. The label isn't really completely inaccurate; my own view though is that as an ALL-ENCOMPASSING term, "Urban Pop" does the job a whole lot better. Especially considering that you frequently even find tracks like Akon's "Smack That" being called R'n'B.

As for the harmonies, I think that the reference to gospel you made was a good point - actually I think the harmonies are arguably more gospel-derived than blues-derived. Though above all, I'd say that the harmonies show more 80s soul influence (though yeah, you could equally point out that soul was partly derived from the blues - though it went its own way).

Incidentally, I seem to remember that when this sort of music started getting more mainstream in the early/mid nineties (such as back when Adina Howard's "Freak Like Me" was all the rage), people I knew would refer to it as "swing", or even "hip hop" (as in soul with hip hop beats) - I never heard the term R'n'B being used really popularly until a good deal later down the line. Though maybe I just missed it.
Rainard Jalen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2007, 05:53 PM   #15 (permalink)
In a very sad sad zoo
 
Moon Pix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: "Out on tour with Smashing Pumpkins, nature kids, they don't have no function"
Posts: 363
Default

We don't we really use R n' B as a term to classify music over here. All of that stuff gets filed under Urban which is a f***ing stupid name because the Velvet Underground were about as urbanised as you can get (they were from New York for christs sake!) yet theyre in the rock/pop section.

You never Dock Boggs and Woody Guthrie filed under the Rural section do you?

Id call it contemporary soul but I don't think theres much soul in a lot of it so its a misnomer.
__________________
There’s a dream that I see, I pray it can be
Look 'cross the land, shake this land - "Maybe Not", C. Marshall

Last edited by Moon Pix; 02-06-2007 at 05:59 PM.
Moon Pix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2007, 06:13 PM   #16 (permalink)
Music Addict
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,221
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moon Pix View Post
We don't we really use R n' B as a term to classify music over here. All of that stuff gets filed under Urban which is a f***ing stupid name because the Velvet Underground were about as urbanised as you can get (they were from New York for christs sake!) yet theyre in the rock/pop section.

You never Dock Boggs and Woody Guthrie filed under the Rural section do you?
Yeah, well good points there. Urban is a difficult term, too. I guess it refers to urban more in the sense of music with "street" culture influences as opposed to suburban.
Rainard Jalen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2007, 11:06 PM   #17 (permalink)
Music Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 161
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainard Jalen View Post
Yeah, well good points there. Urban is a difficult term, too. I guess it refers to urban more in the sense of music with "street" culture influences as opposed to suburban.
i never thought when they use the term urban & got it confused with suburban. whoever thinks that is not to smart. ya can clearly tell urban has something to do with street. but you'll see some music classifid as it when it really isnt.
ryder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2007, 03:42 AM   #18 (permalink)
In a very sad sad zoo
 
Moon Pix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: "Out on tour with Smashing Pumpkins, nature kids, they don't have no function"
Posts: 363
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainard Jalen View Post
Yeah, well good points there. Urban is a difficult term, too. I guess it refers to urban more in the sense of music with "street" culture influences as opposed to suburban.
They did have "street" influences, they had a song about going uptown to score smack. Thats a bit of "street" reporting every bit as much as the rap stuff.
__________________
There’s a dream that I see, I pray it can be
Look 'cross the land, shake this land - "Maybe Not", C. Marshall
Moon Pix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2007, 06:30 AM   #19 (permalink)
Bitchfarmer
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Between the minarettes, down the Casbah way.
Posts: 983
Default

R&H? Harmony? Maybe but blues? nope! I disagree with this genre name completely.
__________________
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Yup.

Because I chose to play the fool in a six-piece band,
First-night nerves every one-night stand.
I should be glad to be so inclined.
What a waste! What a waste!
But I don't mind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowquill View Post
Nirvana pisses over David Bowie and Nirvana isn't even that good.
Frances is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2007, 07:45 AM   #20 (permalink)
Music Addict
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,221
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moon Pix View Post
They did have "street" influences, they had a song about going uptown to score smack. Thats a bit of "street" reporting every bit as much as the rap stuff.
Going uptown to SCORE it = surburban
Going uptown to SELL it = urban
Rainard Jalen is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Similar Threads



© 2003-2020 Advameg, Inc.