Originally Posted by Conan

I disagree. Firstly, there is a fine line between a One Trick Pony and a signature style. Second, you dismiss the possibility of his having artistic integrity by claiming he uses his musical career to bring attention to himself. And yet, I'm having a hard time remember the last time Eminem did something that could legitimetly be called a publicity stunt. He even took a musical hiatus and dropped off the face of the Earth for a while to deal with his problems privately. It's only through his music that he exorsizes his personal problems. And I ask you, isn't that the hallmark of a great artist?

Was his stuff a little immature at times? Definetly. But he was always deeper than his lyrics, the naivety of both his persona and his fans wrapped themselves in infinate layers of irony. A true satirist. Was a lot of his subject matter used purely for shock value? Yes. He's even said this himself. Listen to any D12 song and it's clear that it's just bullsh*tting, makes for some fun hip hop though. And when he did delve deeper into his pysche, the results were sincere and often quite beautiful. Over all, he's a great emcee and i'm sure a pretty cool guy.

And be careful about how you use the term "white trash". As far as I'm concerned it's as derogative as a few other words.

Originally Posted by OBEY

"Never trust your own eyes, believe what you are told".

Originally Posted by Conan

I disagree. Firstly, there is a fine line between a One Trick Pony and a signature style. Second, you dismiss the possibility of his having artistic integrity by claiming he uses his musical career to bring attention to himself. And yet, I'm having a hard time remember the last time Eminem did something that could legitimetly be called a publicity stunt. He even took a musical hiatus and dropped off the face of the Earth for a while to deal with his problems privately. It's only through his music that he exorsizes his personal problems. And I ask you, isn't that the hallmark of a great artist?

Was his stuff a little immature at times? Definetly. But he was always deeper than his lyrics, the naivety of both his persona and his fans wrapped themselves in infinate layers of irony. A true satirist. Was a lot of his subject matter used purely for shock value? Yes. He's even said this himself. Listen to any D12 song and it's clear that it's just bullsh*tting, makes for some fun hip hop though. And when he did delve deeper into his pysche, the results were sincere and often quite beautiful. Over all, he's a great emcee and i'm sure a pretty cool guy.

And be careful about how you use the term "white trash". As far as I'm concerned it's as derogative as a few other words.

Originally Posted by Conan

I didn't say I agreed with everything he ever said. It feels great being discriminated against because your white and don't have a lot of money. I don't care what people say the phrase supposedly means, that's how it's used. Just like n*gger, f*ggot, ch*nk... etc. All in the same playing field in my honest opinion.

Originally Posted by SATCHMO

I won't take issue with any of the points that you've made. They're all quite relevant and I would be lying if I told you that there's not a single Eminem song that I enjoy. There are a few, but I enjoy them purely for their novelty and for the fact that-- and I will always concede that he is, a great lyricist, but as I said in my previous post, it takes more than that to make an emcee great.

But the title of this thread is "Greatest White Rapper" and I know that the career that Eminem has had has elevated him to a status that he is completely undeserving of and it is this status, which is largely a product of strategic marketing and Em's work ethic, that has made him a household name in our country, not his unrivaled talent. There are emcees and hip hop groups out there that demonstrate greater talent and artistic integrity than he does.

I do apologize for using the term "white trash".

Originally Posted by SATCHMO

To me the term white trash denotes ignorance, insolence, and a lack of purpose, not insolvency, and that was the way that I meant it. It doesn't justify what I said at all, but I wanted to clarify that.

Originally Posted by Hank The Drifter

Wow.
There are some extremely talented white rappers out there. One that quickly comes to mind is R.A. the Rugged Man. The verse he spits in Jedi Mind Tricks Uncommon Valor is deadly. Several others are really solid rappers imo. Eminem was just the biggest white rapper. Don't get me wrong I respect his early work. With that being said I don't think he deserves the credit he gets. He released two good albums with a few songs on some others that were good. He didn't exactly re-write the How to Rap book. Sometimes his flow even annoys me, and his lyrics were good but a lot of his stuff was clearly written for shock value and nothing more. No real substance in a lot of it. Others write lyrics just as solid as his. He has pretty enjoyable beats, but nothing that deserves being worshiped or anything.

Eminem has become more about nostalgia than anything for me. I still enjoy MMLP and SSLP, but I now know how much better rap there is out there.