Why do Critics give rap albums good reviews?

dark shadow · 12-21-2009, 01:34 PM

That would seem the logical way to approach the situation, but people aren't logical. There have been psychological and sociological studies done which show that people latch on to the crowd whenever possible. conformity is a natural human reaction. When this is applied to the internet, through the context of anonymous online interaction via message boards as this, when the topic is negative and everyone begins to latch on to why this sucks, flaming and general chaos tends to erupt.

You are right, it is the content of the discussion that matters. However, negative topics tend to devolve far faster than positive ones with people commenting on why they dislike or disagree. Of course, flaming of those with different opinions still can happen, and there are always trolls which throw off the entire equation. Still, negativity in general creates a bad template to begin the topic with, especially in the case of ignorant or biased questions such as this one.

~~someonecompletelyrandom~~ · 12-21-2009, 01:51 PM

And that was all I was saying.

Baabaa · 12-21-2009, 04:44 PM

Quote:

I feel critics are almost forcing themselves to give good reviews to rap albums just so they just don't upset that audience.

That's probably the case, yeah...

lieasleep · 12-21-2009, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dark shadow

That would seem the logical way to approach the situation, but people aren't logical. There have been psychological and sociological studies done which show that people latch on to the crowd whenever possible. conformity is a natural human reaction. When this is applied to the internet, through the context of anonymous online interaction via message boards as this, when the topic is negative and everyone begins to latch on to why this sucks, flaming and general chaos tends to erupt.

You are right, it is the content of the discussion that matters. However, negative topics tend to devolve far faster than positive ones with people commenting on why they dislike or disagree. Of course, flaming of those with different opinions still can happen, and there are always trolls which throw off the entire equation. Still, negativity in general creates a bad template to begin the topic with, especially in the case of ignorant or biased questions such as this one.

show me these studies and obviously that doesnt apply since, as this thread shows, even when someone attacks a genre, people defends it, and some interesting discussion is even brought up there was no flaming or chaos.

~~someonecompletelyrandom~~ · 12-21-2009, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lieasleep

show me these studies and obviously that doesnt apply since, as this thread shows, even when someone attacks a genre, people defends it, and some interesting discussion is even brought up there was no flaming or chaos.

Are you calling this thread interesting? Of course if somebody attacks something as general and popular as rap people are going to defend it, that doesn't mean it's not a negetive, pissy, dumb idea for a thread. Summary is as follows.

I hate rap.

Rap isn't bad.

I hate most rap.

Okay then.

This discussion is stupid.

No it aint.

Okay whatever.

Yeah man, you could write a book with that!

TechN9ne · 12-21-2009, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave.r2009

What can possibly be good about the typical rap album. 18 songs per album(Too much, should be 10-12 tracks) 4-5 filler tracks (skits) and your typical rap lyrics about Clubs,guns,drugs,woman,cars,ghetto's..blah..blah.. blah and add on some commerical beats for airplay. Even the better rappers out there like Lupe Fiasco,K'naan can't produce a anything classic. The only classic rap album I have ever liked was from a group called Camp Lo called "Uptown Saturday Night" in 1996 The beats were enjoyable and there lyrics and slang was very creative, to this day I have trouble understanding what exactly there rapping about in some of there songs.

It's beyond me how some critics can say that Lil Wayne's "Carter 3" is better then the Fleet Foxes album. According to Metacritic Reakwon's new album is in the top 5 and in fact is prop ****.

I feel critics are almost forcing themselves to give good reviews to rap albums just so they just don't upset that audience.

I feel that some of this is just hype, and tend not to care much for what 'critics' say because of exactly what you pointed out. I'm not much of a mainstream listener.

Another point here is that most critics that I see write about rap give it a bad rep. At least the rap I listen to, such as Tech N9ne, Eminem, etc., so it's not 'all' critics.

dark shadow · 12-21-2009, 11:38 PM

Solomon Asch study social pressure conformity experiment psychology

Imagine yourself in the following situation: You sign up for a psychology experiment, and on a specified date you and seven others whom you think are also subjects arrive and are seated at a table in a small room. You don't know it at the time, but the others are actually associates of the experimenter, and their behavior has been carefully scripted. You're the only real subject.

The experimenter arrives and tells you that the study in which you are about to participate concerns people's visual judgments. She places two cards before you. The card on the left contains one vertical line. The card on the right displays three lines of varying length.

The experimenter asks all of you, one at a time, to choose which of the three lines on the right card matches the length of the line on the left card. The task is repeated several times with different cards. On some occasions the other "subjects" unanimously choose the wrong line. It is clear to you that they are wrong, but they have all given the same answer.

What would you do? Would you go along with the majority opinion, or would you "stick to your guns" and trust your own eyes?

In 1951 social psychologist Solomon Asch devised this experiment to examine the extent to which pressure from other people could affect one's perceptions. In total, about one third of the subjects who were placed in this situation went along with the clearly erroneous majority.

Asch showed bars like those in the Figure to college students in groups of 8 to 10. He told them he was studying visual perception and that their task was to decide which of the bars on the right was the same length as the one on the left. As you can see, the task is simple, and the correct answer is obvious. Asch asked the students to give their answers aloud. He repeated the procedure with 18 sets of bars. Only one student in each group was a real subject. All the others were confederates who had been instructed to give incorrect answers on 12 of the 18 trials. Asch arranged for the real subject to be the next-to-the-last person in each group to announce his answer so that he would hear most of the confederates incorrect responses before giving his own. Would he go along with the crowd?

To Asch's surprise, 37 of the 50 subjects conformed to the majority at least once, and 14 of them conformed on more than 6 of the 12 trials. When faced with a unanimous wrong answer by the other group members, the mean subject conformed on 4 of the 12 trials. Asch was disturbed by these results: "The tendency to conformity in our society is so strong that reasonably intelligent and well-meaning young people are willing to call white black. This is a matter of concern. It raises questions about our ways of education and about the values that guide our conduct."

Why did the subjects conform so readily? When they were interviewed after the experiment, most of them said that they did not really believe their conforming answers, but had gone along with the group for fear of being ridiculed or thought "peculiar." A few of them said that they really did believe the group's answers were correct.

Asch conducted a revised version of his experiment to find out whether the subjects truly did not believe their incorrect answers. When they were permitted to write down their answers after hearing the answers of others, their level of conformity declined to about one third what it had been in the original experiment.

Apparently, people conform for two main reasons: because they want to be liked by the group and because they believe the group is better informed than they are. Suppose you go to a fancy dinner party and notice to your dismay that there are four forks beside your plate. When the first course arrives, you are not sure which fork to use. If you are like most people, you look around and use the fork everyone else is using. You do this because you want to be accepted by the group and because you assume the others know more about table etiquette than you do.

lieasleep · 12-22-2009, 10:53 AM

well, conan, we have discussion of good rappers and what makes good rap, discussion of rap content, dark shadow is throwing sociological studies at me, i'd say its pretty interesting, the only thing making this thread really bad is you, its not the best thread, but once again, no one is making you read it, why not spend your time on what YOU consider an acceptable thread?

Meph1986 · 12-22-2009, 11:14 AM

Easy, because they like it.

~~someonecompletelyrandom~~ · 12-22-2009, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lieasleep

well, conan, we have discussion of good rappers and what makes good rap, discussion of rap content, dark shadow is throwing sociological studies at me, i'd say its pretty interesting, the only thing making this thread really bad is you, its not the best thread, but once again, no one is making you read it, why not spend your time on what YOU consider an acceptable thread?

Haha, alright what ever enjoy it.

12-22-2009, 11:14 AM	#49 (permalink)
Meph1986 How High? Join Date: May 2008 Location: FL Posts: 684	Easy, because they like it. __________________

12-21-2009, 01:34 PM	#41 (permalink)
dark shadow Music Addict Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 78	That would seem the logical way to approach the situation, but people aren't logical. There have been psychological and sociological studies done which show that people latch on to the crowd whenever possible. conformity is a natural human reaction. When this is applied to the internet, through the context of anonymous online interaction via message boards as this, when the topic is negative and everyone begins to latch on to why this sucks, flaming and general chaos tends to erupt. You are right, it is the content of the discussion that matters. However, negative topics tend to devolve far faster than positive ones with people commenting on why they dislike or disagree. Of course, flaming of those with different opinions still can happen, and there are always trolls which throw off the entire equation. Still, negativity in general creates a bad template to begin the topic with, especially in the case of ignorant or biased questions such as this one.

12-21-2009, 01:51 PM	#42 (permalink)
~~someonecompletelyrandom~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,538	And that was all I was saying.

12-21-2009, 11:38 PM	#47 (permalink)
dark shadow Music Addict Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 78	Solomon Asch study social pressure conformity experiment psychology Imagine yourself in the following situation: You sign up for a psychology experiment, and on a specified date you and seven others whom you think are also subjects arrive and are seated at a table in a small room. You don't know it at the time, but the others are actually associates of the experimenter, and their behavior has been carefully scripted. You're the only real subject. The experimenter arrives and tells you that the study in which you are about to participate concerns people's visual judgments. She places two cards before you. The card on the left contains one vertical line. The card on the right displays three lines of varying length. The experimenter asks all of you, one at a time, to choose which of the three lines on the right card matches the length of the line on the left card. The task is repeated several times with different cards. On some occasions the other "subjects" unanimously choose the wrong line. It is clear to you that they are wrong, but they have all given the same answer. What would you do? Would you go along with the majority opinion, or would you "stick to your guns" and trust your own eyes? In 1951 social psychologist Solomon Asch devised this experiment to examine the extent to which pressure from other people could affect one's perceptions. In total, about one third of the subjects who were placed in this situation went along with the clearly erroneous majority. Asch showed bars like those in the Figure to college students in groups of 8 to 10. He told them he was studying visual perception and that their task was to decide which of the bars on the right was the same length as the one on the left. As you can see, the task is simple, and the correct answer is obvious. Asch asked the students to give their answers aloud. He repeated the procedure with 18 sets of bars. Only one student in each group was a real subject. All the others were confederates who had been instructed to give incorrect answers on 12 of the 18 trials. Asch arranged for the real subject to be the next-to-the-last person in each group to announce his answer so that he would hear most of the confederates incorrect responses before giving his own. Would he go along with the crowd? To Asch's surprise, 37 of the 50 subjects conformed to the majority at least once, and 14 of them conformed on more than 6 of the 12 trials. When faced with a unanimous wrong answer by the other group members, the mean subject conformed on 4 of the 12 trials. Asch was disturbed by these results: "The tendency to conformity in our society is so strong that reasonably intelligent and well-meaning young people are willing to call white black. This is a matter of concern. It raises questions about our ways of education and about the values that guide our conduct." Why did the subjects conform so readily? When they were interviewed after the experiment, most of them said that they did not really believe their conforming answers, but had gone along with the group for fear of being ridiculed or thought "peculiar." A few of them said that they really did believe the group's answers were correct. Asch conducted a revised version of his experiment to find out whether the subjects truly did not believe their incorrect answers. When they were permitted to write down their answers after hearing the answers of others, their level of conformity declined to about one third what it had been in the original experiment. Apparently, people conform for two main reasons: because they want to be liked by the group and because they believe the group is better informed than they are. Suppose you go to a fancy dinner party and notice to your dismay that there are four forks beside your plate. When the first course arrives, you are not sure which fork to use. If you are like most people, you look around and use the fork everyone else is using. You do this because you want to be accepted by the group and because you assume the others know more about table etiquette than you do.

12-22-2009, 10:53 AM	#48 (permalink)
lieasleep Music Addict Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 355	well, conan, we have discussion of good rappers and what makes good rap, discussion of rap content, dark shadow is throwing sociological studies at me, i'd say its pretty interesting, the only thing making this thread really bad is you, its not the best thread, but once again, no one is making you read it, why not spend your time on what YOU consider an acceptable thread?