There is nothing wrong with capitalizing off the sex market if that's how you want to make your money. If she's not being forced I don't see a problem, her body, her decision. There is a reason porn has a huge market in the US. Sex is a natural human desire, yada yada, I'm not gonna go off on that speech, but come on, less prude please.

I don't see why if it's fake or not matters. I "marvel" over beauty, period. Everyone's idea of it is different. There are pictures I have posted on this forum of crazy piercings and stuff that i find beautiful and others call it disgusting.

Some people take mods to the extreme other people use them to achieve that JLo figure. How are you going to condemn one and not the other?

You are right but I have a problem with "so called" artists who proclaim to be artists who make artistic music and artistic music videos when their images and music videos project the opposite.

There is nothing artistic about this music video and Nikki proclaims that she is an artist so there is an expectation there for her but not just her anybody who calls themselves an artist.


Whether she is being forced or not it is still projecting a message and it still does not change the fact that she is using her body to sell records.

She is always saying that she is a rapper FIRST and always calls out other rappers so why is she using her body to sell records instead of her music???

I am holding her accountable for HER OWN words which people have a right too.

You can't call out other rappers for the very thing you do yourself and Nikki Minaj is famous for this.




Okay, but this is NOT Porn, this is a MUSIC video. This is suppose to be an expression of art and expressing the meaning of a song in a visual way. I don't have a problem with sexuality being used in music or music videos in a ARTISTIC WAY but its troubling how these pop female artists persist on fulfilling men desires instead of tackling deeper messages with their music.

It reinforces negative stereotypes about woman.It reinforces the idea that "we are only here to fulfill the fantasies of men and we are only good for objectifying our bodies" Being that I am a woman myself I don't like it.


You can still be classy and sexy without degrading your body like that I dont care what anyone says.


I think it does matter when a male society is holding a woman who has had multiple plastic surgeries as the standard of beauty.

The average woman does not look like that because they can't afford to get their nose done, their boobs done, their ass done, or hips done.

It does matter because men are marveling at something that is not real and it is being held as a "standard"




That is completely different from this


I am not condemning anyone but everything on J Lo's body is natural and real unlike most of the fake asses in holly wood.

MOST African American and Latina women are naturally shaped like a Jlo which is why I dont have a problem if someone would want to hold her as the standard for that population women. Nikki on the other hand is just not accurate symbolism. No way her ass is the average ass of a black woman, and we have booty's but they don't look proportionally abnormal like hers

Music is suppose to be art but just because someone makes a song does not automatically make it "artistic" or art.

She has professed to be an artist and wants to be taken seriously as an artist. She has also negatively criticized other artists for not writing their lyrics or being creative.

So I have every right to hold her accountable for what she says she wants her music and music videos to reflect.


This music video and song is the opposite of what SHE wants HER music to reflect....period.


It does not matter that the song is about sex. The video concept could have still be more creative than just her just popping her booty and laying around half naked.

I am not her fan or am looking for her to be more than what she is because I know what she is. I just think that she should be held accountable for what she says and does.

Don't call out Iggy or insist you are a serious artist but then lay around half naked on the ground and make a stupid song, c'mon.


Just because she may not feel degraded does not mean what she is doing is not degrading.

That is like saying the act of prostituting is not degrading because the woman does not "feel degraded". It still does not change that it is a degrading act regardless whether the woman feels comfortable with it or not.

I wouldn't say she is "blessed" because she can do this. I just think this is something that she is choosing to do and she is being backed by a label that is marketing her based on image that requires her to exploit her body.

There are plenty of better looking ordinary woman that are not rich that don't exploit their bodies in this manner.

It does not take a whole lot of talent to do what she is doing so lets not make it seem like it is lol


There are men who do and society holds her to a certain standard. There are men who vote on polls and express their opinion and she is being held to a standard based on male perspectives.

I never said that made her less attractive. I have never once in this conversation called her ugly because I definitely don't think that or thought that before her surgeries.

I just think its troubling that our society glorifies superficial unattainable images of what women are suppose to look like when they are just "fantasies".


You completely misunderstood what I said here lol


I used J Lo because she is a woman that is often praised for her shape and sex appeal and she doesn't have a fake booty or curves like Nikki.


Her body is natural and is not artificially put togehter like Nikki so I would feel more comfortable as a minority if the media held Jlo as a standard for women of color when it comes to their bodies because most black woman, Latina, etc are naturally shaped like her.

Most white women/Caucasian do not have asses or are curvy which is why I did not use them as an example.

Most minority woman do not have an ass like Nikki because her ass is fake and abnormally shaped.

At the end of the day, no celebrity is technically a standard but I just feel more comfortable when the celebrity in question are naturally presented the way a ordinary person would be

Don't confuse expressing an opinion with pushing ones thoughts on others.

I am not judging Nikki but her display in the music video is degrading in my opinion and as a black woman I am personally sick and tired of seeing these female black pop stars exploiting their bodies when they do not have too.


I did not pass judgement on her as a human being. I just judged the video and the music since she is a pop star and as a music consumer and record buyer, I have a right too.

If you disagree then that is fine

But I am also entitled to my opinion as you are to yours.

Nice chatting.

The music video works perfectly for the song. She is playing off of Sir Mixalot's video but with her own spin on it. I don't know how you don't see that Soulflower.

If you want to call Nicki out. Call her out on the fact that she said this album would be more rap based while she leads with two pop sounding singles.

I see that but I still find it degrading.

I also in my own words said the bolded.

I said that she insisted she is a serious artist, writes her own lyrics and is creative.

Howevever, this song and music video displays the opposite whether its pop or not.

The act is still degrading and that is my opinion. I am in no way pushing my thoughts on others by saying that.

YOU are pushing your opinion on me because you don't feel its degrading and since you disagree you think you have the authority to say what is or what is not degrading.

You said yourself that it was subjective. So what point are you trying to make?

I think it is degrading, that is my opinion you don't have to agree with it.


Do you understand that I understand that and I am just stating my opinion?

You are the one clearly pushing your opinions on others here because I have never stated anything as a fact in any of these responses.

ALL of these responses are opinions, even YOURS.

Definition of "Exploit"

make full use of and derive benefit from (a resource)

use (a situation or person) in an unfair or selfish way.

I think that Nikki is using her body in an unfair way and she does not have to. She is making use of oversexualizing her body in order to get money. She has spent millions of dollars on plastic surgery in order to do this so how is this not a form of exploitation?

There are many different forms of exploitation and the person can play a part in their own exploitation as well.

I am bewildered with why she would do that. She claims she is an artist first and not a marketing gimmick. She often calls out Iggy and other rappers for doing the same thing she does.

Remember Nikki is just a package that her label is presenting. She is agreeing to go along with being exploited and I think that is a problem.

You can also play a part in exploiting yourself as well in my opinion.

The video was horrible. However, if she wants to show her sexual side that's her decision. Just because you think she has a fake butt it doesn't mean she can't flaunt it like J.Lo or anyone else. If you don't like her sexuality in her videos, don't watch them. It's attitudes like this that slut shame female artists because they are empowering themselves. Many male rappers have sexual music videos yet no one blinks an eyelid. Because a woman does the same she must be a slave to the industry right? :rolleyes:

Degradation can be defined by ANYBODY.

Aren't we consumers that she is trying to market too?

Aren't we entitled to express our opinions on what she wants US consumers to purchase and support?

So you are saying Nikki is the ONLY person who gets to make the decision on how people should form opinions about her music and work?

LOL

I have every right to express an opinion about anything she does especially since she is marketing and trying to sell a brand to the buying public. I AM apart of that music buying public so why can't I not have an opinion?

You are not the authority of what someone can and can not say on a topic. If you do not think it is degrading than that is okay but you can not shunned others if they think otherwise.

If she wants to parade around half naked and shake her booty for a dollar than she needs to be prepared for people to form their OWN opinion, rightfully so being she is a public figure trying to market to US.


How do you know how she feels about what she is doing?

There are women with low self esteem who feel they have to prostitute or have pimps to have self worth. There are models who stave themselves everday because they want to be thin in order to be famous. Likewise, there are pop stars who degrade their bodies in order to be more famous. There is no difference.

There are people who shoot innocent people, do drugs, prostitute, and rape people everyday and they do not think there is anything wrong with it.

If a man feels its okay to rape a woman, its okay because the rapist views it as being okay? :confused:

This makes NO sense at all.

It is subjective, it has nothing to do with being "personal". People are entitled to THEIR opinion regardless of what the person who is doing the act thinks of it.



Based off your definition. This is still your opinion.

You are not stating a fact.

You are stating your opinion which you are entiled too.

Can you explain what definitions you are referring to? There are multiple definitions of degradation and none of them imply you have to be the person to define yourself as degrading or not.


This is what a dictionary defines as degradation
Webster Dictionary:

deg·ra·da·tion
noun \ˌde-grə-ˈdā-shən\

: the act or process of damaging or ruining something

: the act of treating someone or something poorly and without respect

Full Definition of DEGRADATION

:the act or process of degrading
decline to a low, destitute, or demoralized state



She is a famous rapper and she makes millions, why is she acting like that in a video when she does not have to?

Now she of course can do what she wants BUT I also have a right to express my opinion on what she is doing and in my opinion it is unnessary.

She is using her body for money when she herself professes she wants to be viewed as a serious rapper compared to her peers? Do you see the irony in that? Do you see the contradiction?

Whether someone is a pop star or not, I hold people accountable for what they say which they should be.

I think it is tacky even when J Lo flaunts it but at least when the media insists that J Lo has a nice body, everything on it is actually real versus Nikki.

I can watch whatever I want and form whatever kind of opinion on whatever I want. I like music so I have a right to have my own opinion on it.

There was nothing empowering about this video and the only one who is slut shaming Nikki is Nikki herself.

If I paid that much money to look like that I would be showing it off at every opportunity too

Her looks creep me the **** out. Her music is...blegh.

I give dat video 2 thumbs UP

Your post is full of misogyny tbh. Because Nicki's butt is fake she's not allowed to be proud of her body? It's her music career, it's her choice what she does with everything that relates to her.

The only one slut shaming is you. You are setting standards for her that you have no right to. Next you'll tell me you hate strippers and working girls for selling their sexuality.

How so?

This is not a matter of her being "proud of her body". You can still be proud of your body without exploiting it in a derogatory way.

She is capitalizing off of the sex market period, its not that deep.

She is entitled to do what she wants but I am also entitled to form an opinion on what she does as a consumer.

She professes she wants to be taken seriously as an artist

She has often called out other artists for doing what SHE did in this video

So why can't people hold her accountable?

You act like since I am criticizing the video and "slut shaming" as you say, my opinion is invalid.

This has nothing to do with strippers. So lets stay focus on the topic.

ONCE AGAIN, there is nothing wrong with using sexuality in music but as long as it is done tastefully and artistically. I personally think it defeats the purpose when it is only use to capitalize off of and not to convey a message but once again that is MY opinion.


Madonna did the same thing BUT at least she tried to challenge her listeners in an artistic way. There was a message behind what she did.

It's filth. So yeah it's quality.

This is the problem right here.

YOU think this discussion on this music video is objective and it is not. How are people's opinion on the video objective? -rhetorical question

I could say Nikki is acting like a slut in the video based on my own opinion and it still would not be objective.

I think Nikki is degrading herself whether she feels that way or not.

That is an opinion. It does not matter whether the issue is on degradation or not.

It does not matter whether she feels that way or not because that is my opinion which I formed after watching the video.

I watched the video and I formed my own opinion.

This entire conversation is subjective.

The fact that you think Nikki is the only person who gets to decide whether she is degrading herself or not is in fact subjective because that is YOUR opinion.


When was that a question? This was never a question.

My first response to this video was "Very degrading". You can scroll back to my very first post on this discussion. I never asked a question.

I flat out gave my opinion on what I saw in the video.

You seem to have a hard time deciphering the difference between objective and subjective responses.

You are misinterpreting my responses and making up what you want from this discussion. No where have I asked that question.

I simply gave my opinion on the video which you seem to think you have some type of authority over.

You do not get to decide what is subjective or objective when it comes down to opinions.

This was never a question that was asked. I simply stated that Nikki was degrading herself and you simply disagreed with it.

This debate is about whether a person is entitled to express whether someone is degrading themselves or not (expressing an opinion) or is it only up to the person in question.

You feel it is only up to the person in question which is beyond absurd because everyone is entitled to have their own opinion whether good or bad.


There are no questions that were asked and Nikki's response to this question is irrelevant because it still would not change the fact that people are entitled to form their own opinion about what she is doing in the video based on her behavior in the video.

If you agreed that people have a right to form their own opinions on what she does, being she is a public figure, why do you continue to argue against people insisting she is degrading herself? Is that not an opinion someone is forming based on the video?


I most certainly do have the right to form my own opinion on a video that she has made for public consumption regardless whether she feels she is degrading herself or not.

I think it is sad that you honestly believe nobody is entitled (including yourself) to state an opinion that she is degrading herself in the video.

I am trying to get you to understand that her opinion and what she feels is irrelevant because whatever opinion that you form is in fact your opinion. It would not matter what she feels.

This is not an question for Nikki. I watched the video and thought it was very degrading that is simply an opinion I have on the video.


Anybody can form an opinion about anything. Now I personally feel it is never good to judge anybody as a HUMAN BEING especially if you do not know them personally which is quite different from this discussion.

I am not judging her personally or as a person. I simply stated that the music video which she is marketing for the public is very degrading, which it is.



This discussion is about people giving their opinions on a music video, period. I could care less what Nikki thinks of MY opinion on a music video that SHE wants the public (which I am included in) to watch.

If she wants me to watch this video than she needs to be prepared for MY opinion on it regardless of what she thinks about the video.

An opinion would be, "Nikki should feel degraded by her actions." If you said that we wouldn't be having this discussion. All you're doing is stating a fact a calling it your opinion.

This has been quite fun but I will be removing all my previous posts for the sake of other members. We have derailed the thread quite a bit with our bickering and I don't want other people having to sift through everything. Feel free to PM me or post here if you'd like.

No I am not. This is actually what you are doing.

I am expressing my opinion on the video.

You are trying to dictate how I should express my opinion which is pointless on your part because I am going to say whatever I feel like saying because it is my opinion.

You do not know the difference between expressing an opinion versus proclaiming something as a fact.

And it's pointless debating something with someone so stubborn that won't consider any other facts or opinions. You have come off really nasty in this thread. I've seen you actually thank other people in other threads because they share your opinion but when I made a different opinion you blasted me for it and funnily enough did not thank me for sharing. :rolleyes:

I didn't come off nasty at all. You for some reason act like you have some type of hang up every time I make a post regardless of the thread. You lash out at me for whatever reason you need to think about that before you go calling someone nasty.

I usually thank people who respond in threads I start.

I have thanked people I have not agreed with and have admitted to being wrong many times but that is neither here or there. This is a discussion board so people will debate and go back and forth that is the purpose of this board.

The very first thing I said was "Very grading" in this thread.

I didn't come at anybody any kind of way.

The poster is implying that I am not entitled to my opinion and that's absurd because I am entitled to my opinion just like anyone else who responds in this thread is entitled to theirs.

The real question is why would anybody want to see someone who looks like an extra from The Muppet Show half naked in the first place.

How many TPH can Nicki's ass handle? I need this information to calculate the amount of silicone in her booty.

I googled TPH and didn't find anything relating to Nikki's ass. What is it?

Twerks Per Hour

O jesus.. /facepalm

I have a feeling it's good that you're back on the forums. :thumb:

Because I was hoping she'd be full naked. I get her look isn't for everyone. But I would do unspeakable things to that woman if we were in bed together. I think she's insanely hot.

I concur. She is so sexy.

"Bitches say **** but they ain't saying nothing."

Felt like quoting that because no matter what you think about Nicki's style, videos, rapping or songs, she doesn't give a fuck.

Music is always art. Just because you don't like it or it's objectively shitty does not strip it of its status as art. Tyler Perry's films are still films, How I Met Your Mother is still a sitcom, Catcher In the Rye is still a novel, the sea of poetry written by angsty and vocabularyless teens is still poetry. Just because I think these things are worse than getting my eyes gouged out, they are all still art. To quote Duchamp, "art can be bad, good, or indifferent, but whatever adjective is used we must still call it art."

It only makes you look ignorant when you call a piece of art otherwise because you're not a fan of it.

The qualm that I have with these kinds of videos, and maybe it's not a fair one to have, is that

they kind of reinforce this idea that to be a sexual female pop star you still have to cater towards perhaps backwards and overwhelmingly predominantly male fantasies. not that that's in all cases inherently wrong. but this one in particular doesn't really seem to espouse any sort of feminine sexuality, just women doing (seemingly exclusively) what men want. and, from what i've seen, that's what the vast majority of female sexuality in popular media is made out to be. What kind of example does that set? Not just for women, mind you.

I'm not tryna step on anyone's toes here or shift the discussion so far off course it's just something I've been thinking about. I am totally not an expert so if anyone wants to school me like, get on it.

Well said!

This was the point I was trying to make. I know sometimes my point doesn't come out the way I intend it to but this was well on the mark!

To add to your point I would say, I think it is sad that these female pop star's and record labels try to mask these stereotypes by calling them "feminism" because that is not want feminism is. They know that girls and young teens are their primary audience and they create songs that cater to them but they make the music videos for the men.

If they want to sell sex, then sell sex but don't call it feminism or call it empowerment because it is not. It just reinforces a lot of negative stereotypes that women for years have tried to detach from.

:laughing:

Music is a art medium yes. However, it doesn't mean songs or music videos are artistic just because it falls under that medium.

I don't think it makes me look ignorant to suggest this, I just feel it's just my opinion.

P.S. I agree about your opinion on the Tyler Perry films but I gotta say "They Family that Preys" was pretty good.

Her intention was to be empowering of her own image and to show body positivity. The place where she goes a little wrong is the whole shaming skinny women in the process. She wanted to showcase thicker women because she feels like in media and even in hip hop they only like to glorify skinny women as being beautiful and sexy.

It feels like we watched two different videos or maybe you weren't paying attention to the lyrics and the symbolism in the video. There is a part where she pretends that she likes a banana then chops it up aggressively while winking at the camera. Just one of the examples that she isn't doing this for men.

It's using sex to sell lowest common denominator music.
There's no message, there's no empowerment, it's look at my titties and buy my record.

Wow lol you summarized all 10 of my posts on this topic in two sentences!

She talks about the message in this video but you can continue going around saying there is no message all you want.

hmmm?

also i guess "art" and "artistic" are technically different things. All music is art. It's just a descriptor. Whether or not you think a piece of music is artistic is up to you i suppose, but it sounds like a whiny hollow insult to me. "oh i dont like this so it's not artistic". I cant think of any music on the planet that i would say isnt artistic.

^ lol DJ what message?

There's no more of a message in that than there is a guide to spiritual enlightenment in Warrant's Cherry Pie video.