Why is modern Hip-Hop music, aswell as mainstream pop so hated by people?

**Janszoon** · 11-12-2014, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DriveYourCarDownToTheSea

I think most musicologists agree that the earliest music was singing. There probably was a melody, of some sort. Most music of primitive cultures involves some sort of melody, even if a simple and primitive one. The earliest music was likely not much different.

And even if you're right, all you're telling me is that rap and punk rock is a regression. No wonder so many people think it sounds "primitive."

I've heard hip hop described as the first truly postmodern form of popular music—that's not something I'd describe as a regression. Minimalism isn't somehow more "primitive" than maximalism and deconstructing form isn't more "primitive" than embracing form.

~~John Wilkes Booth~~ · 11-12-2014, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

I've heard hip hop described as the first truly postmodern form of popular music—that's not something I'd describe as a regression. Minimalism isn't somehow more "primitive" than maximalism and deconstructing form isn't more "primitive" than embracing form.

that's an eloquent way to put it. i've always thought if its so easy to do what rza does by breaking down old soul records and turning them into grimy beats then why is it so many try and yet so few succeed at creating the right sound for the right time and place.

DriveYourCarDownToTheSea · 11-13-2014, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

I've heard hip hop described as the first truly postmodern form of popular music—that's not something I'd describe as a regression. Minimalism isn't somehow more "primitive" than maximalism and deconstructing form isn't more "primitive" than embracing form.

BTW, minimalism has nothing to do with postmodernism. Some postmodern music is minimalist, but postmodern music, by definition, is agnostic about being minimalist or not. And even if rap was postmodern, does not mean it isn't a regression. A lot of postmodern stuff (in music and elsewhere) has been a deliberate regression. Postmodern architecture is perhaps the best-known example: In postmodernism many building were designed to deliberately evoke buildings of 100, 200 years ago. That is a regression; it is doing something that was already done in the past.

**Janszoon** · 11-13-2014, 05:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DriveYourCarDownToTheSea

BTW, minimalism has nothing to do with postmodernism. Some postmodern music is minimalist, but postmodern music, by definition, is agnostic about being minimalist or not. And even if rap was postmodern, does not mean it isn't a regression. A lot of postmodern stuff (in music and elsewhere) has been a deliberate regression. Postmodern architecture is perhaps the best-known example: In postmodernism many building were designed to deliberately evoke buildings of 100, 200 years ago. That is a regression; it is doing something that was already done in the past.

I wasn't saying that minimalism is what makes it postmodern, I was responding to your claim that minimalism is somehow "primitive". What makes it postmodern is the way it deconstructs popular music via things like sampling and turning the medium (records) into an instrument.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DriveYourCarDownToTheSea

Well then let's get even more minimalist and eliminate the beat, too. Already got rid of the melody with rap, let's see what else we can pare off. No melody, no beat - just some guy speaking lyrics.

Oh wait - that would be called "a poetry recital."

At some point it ceases to become music.

We didn't get rid of the melody with rap, the vocals were simply turned into a percussion instrument. There is still melody in most hip hop songs, it's just not coming from the vocalist.

DriveYourCarDownToTheSea · 11-13-2014, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

I wasn't saying that minimalism is what makes it postmodern, I was responding to your claim that minimalism is somehow "primitive". What makes it postmodern is the way it deconstructs popular music via things like sampling and turning the medium (records) into an instrument.

I never said anything about rap being minimalist, it was you who first used the term.

Quote:

We didn't get rid of the melody with rap, the vocals were simply turned into a percussion instrument. There is still melody in most hip hop songs, it's just not coming from the vocalist.

Right, and I already said it is the lack of melody in the vocals that I do not like.