can someone explain to me again why grime isn't rap?

~~John Wilkes Booth~~ · 12-19-2014, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Christian Benteke

I haven't denied this tbh. It is true. But posting a rapper referring to Hip-Hop as Rap doesn't refute what I'm saying with the points made about Lauryn Hill/Linkin Park.

yea like i said i'm not disputing that rapping is also a style of vocals that can be used outside of rap music. but rap music/hip hop is defined specifically by the fact that the emphasis is on those vocals. like ratm raps too but there is a lot of emphasis on how their band sounds so it's not actually rap music.

Quote:

It's not just 'me and urban'. There are instrumental Grime labels, DJ's and producers that are pushing this sound. It's it's own thing.

I mentioned Dubstep for a reason, I could post in more depth about the origin of both being the same, the sounds overlapping and so on, but people acknowledge Dubstep as a genre and form of EDM in it's own right and I haven't ever seen anyone claim it's a form of Hip-Hop, or Rap if you like.

Grime is the same but, it's also an umbrella term. If you look on here at related Grime threads, you'll see people referring to Sway, Skinnyman, Giggs etc as Grime. If that's the way you see it then I see your point, because that is obviously regional Hip-Hop.

Some examples of the difference between the two - German Whip. We've all heard it. It's passed off as Grime but it is not, it is clearly Hip-Hop (it's actually a bite of Niggas in Paris and even the production doesn't resemble archetypal Grime music). British Grime journalists are labelling it as such but it is not Grime.

Maniac - Gunslap. I can't see how this could be seen as anything to do with Hip-Hop in any way, and it is taken from the album 'New Age Grime'.

yea, i see where you are coming from. in terms of production it doesn't seem to draw too much from american hip hop. i was really under the impression that it was about the rapper for grime too. tbh i think dizzee can spit pretty decent. thinking about it more i really dont even think that instrumental hip hop like rjd2 etc should be considered the same genre as actual rap music.

~~Cuthbert~~ · 12-19-2014, 08:05 PM

Yeah think we agree in general tbh.

British people do the same as you in thinking that British 'rapping' music from a certain place or time, is Grime.

Goofle asked if it matters on page one.

For me it does to an extent.

It doesn't matter in terms of good music or bad music. I enjoy for example Dot Rotten's earlier CD's even though they are very Hip-Hop sounding. But I am fed up of tuning into pirate radio and live sets, expecting Grime, only to have the DJ play Trap music. I like Grime in my Grime sets. Weird, I know.

Those 'This is UK Grime' CD compilations annoy me as well.

**Janszoon** · 12-20-2014, 07:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland

Drone=/=drone metal. La Monte Young invented drone. Of course Indian music has a heavy drone element so it's a lot older than that too.

Also native Australian music.

~~John Wilkes Booth~~ · 12-20-2014, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Christian Benteke

Yeah think we agree in general tbh.

British people do the same as you in thinking that British 'rapping' music from a certain place or time, is Grime.

Goofle asked if it matters on page one.

For me it does to an extent.

It doesn't matter in terms of good music or bad music. I enjoy for example Dot Rotten's earlier CD's even though they are very Hip-Hop sounding. But I am fed up of tuning into pirate radio and live sets, expecting Grime, only to have the DJ play Trap music. I like Grime in my Grime sets. Weird, I know.

Those 'This is UK Grime' CD compilations annoy me as well.

some more thoughts after thinking about it a bit...

really like you said people call that lauryn hill **** 'hip hop' but they wouldn't call it rap i don't think. but they would easily call wu tang rap. so maybe hip hop and rap aren't one in the same actually. here's how i basically see it after thinking about it and keeping in mind what krs was getting at.

he was probably talking about the whole 'hip hop is a culture' angle... where it included break dancing and graffiti as part of the movement too. which is how it started. but hip hop music is usually just a rapper going over beats. but then again they call that lauryn hill **** hip hop, and that dj shadow **** hip hop. but that's not rap music. so i guess hip hop (or grime) is the sound. rap is just music where dude is just rapping over a beat. regardless of whether its hip hop or grime. so i'd still call that dizzee rascal **** rap. and i'll say it's grime too cause of the beat. so it's rap but not hip hop. but like that other **** you sent me with no rap vocals is obviously not rap. i dunno this might sound confusing but it makes sense to me lol.

ThePhronetic · 12-30-2014, 02:10 AM

A generalized difference between rap and hip hop would be the emphasis on and style of the instrumental. Those heavily influenced by jazz, blues, r&b, and other black musical traditions could be labeled "hip hop". Those songs shying away from concrete elements of the listed genres are often labeled "rap". Just an observation.

DwnWthVwls · 12-30-2014, 02:24 AM

Hiphop is a culture (the 4 elements). Rap is the genre, which is often referred to as hiphop; a short for hiphop music which means music associated with the hiphop culture. Similar to how you hear hiphopper/hiphop head being short for a person associated with hiphop culture.

When people hear rap and say "that's not hiphop", they are saying its not what hiphop culture represents. "That music is not part of us".

This is how I've always understood it.

DwnWthVwls · 01-04-2015, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jome

Simply, because rap is more meaningful and usually contains a message. I'm yet to hear a grime song which doesnt talk about how hard someone is.

Micco · 01-04-2015, 04:47 PM

I would say Grime could definitely be considered Rap music. But defintely could not be considered Hip-Hop Music, it has absolutely nothing to do the the culture or the music.

~~John Wilkes Booth~~ · 01-04-2015, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Micco

I would say Grime could definitely be considered Rap music. But defintely could not be considered Hip-Hop Music, it has absolutely nothing to do the the culture or the music.

i agree

~~Cuthbert~~ · 01-05-2015, 04:59 AM

Ah that post shouldn't have been deleted. There are loads of Grime songs that don't talk about how hard someone is.

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12-19-2014, 08:05 PM	#52 (permalink)
~~Cuthbert~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: The Black Country Posts: 8,827	Yeah think we agree in general tbh. British people do the same as you in thinking that British 'rapping' music from a certain place or time, is Grime. Goofle asked if it matters on page one. For me it does to an extent. It doesn't matter in terms of good music or bad music. I enjoy for example Dot Rotten's earlier CD's even though they are very Hip-Hop sounding. But I am fed up of tuning into pirate radio and live sets, expecting Grime, only to have the DJ play Trap music. I like Grime in my Grime sets. Weird, I know. Those 'This is UK Grime' CD compilations annoy me as well.

12-30-2014, 02:10 AM	#55 (permalink)
ThePhronetic Groupie Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 16	A generalized difference between rap and hip hop would be the emphasis on and style of the instrumental. Those heavily influenced by jazz, blues, r&b, and other black musical traditions could be labeled "hip hop". Those songs shying away from concrete elements of the listed genres are often labeled "rap". Just an observation.

01-04-2015, 04:47 PM	#58 (permalink)
Micco Karaoke Crooner Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 170	I would say Grime could definitely be considered Rap music. But defintely could not be considered Hip-Hop Music, it has absolutely nothing to do the the culture or the music.

01-05-2015, 04:59 AM	#60 (permalink)
~~Cuthbert~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: The Black Country Posts: 8,827	Ah that post shouldn't have been deleted. There are loads of Grime songs that don't talk about how hard someone is.