Great Post!

I think he's still too new to be considered a legend. Time will tell.

In the 21st century you're most likily right. Not in the 90s though.

I really think Kanye is a very mean person. It was really nasty what he did to Beck.

One of these days he is going to interrupt the wrong person and get slapped upside the head

Reading comprehension is a wonderful thing. I didn't say anything about his music, I simply said that he really did do quite a bit in innovating how musicians market themselves. That can be a good or a bad thing, but he still forwarded that in his own unique way with his grandoise and asshole persona. Look back at the Grammy's. Who got the most attention about the album of the year award? Not Beck, not Beyonce, but Kanye West who wasn't even in the running for the award. He knows what makes people tick and how to spark discussion/memes; that's genius marketing.

As for the rest I was pointing out how legendary and innovative are not synonyms as you seem to think so. Since you'll probably demand evidence in an attempt to skirt the question, here you go:

So first Goofle says:

And in some misaligned attempt to disprove Gooflesh you say.

Innovation and influence are not synonymous. They can be, but it's certainly not the case with all artistry. Look at the film The Magnificent Seven. It was based off of Seven Samurai and took its entire story from it and made it its own. The Magnificent Seven is considered a quintessential classic in the film industry, which would be similar to calling an artist legendary in the music world. But it stole it's ENTIRE plot, how can it be influential? Well that's because it helped set a standard in the industry for an entire different field within it than what it borrowed from (from Asian cinema to Western). Even then there were people bah humbugging about the film as pretentious similar to how people whine and moan about Kanye's arrogance (which I think is really just a facade, refer back to the marketing).

This shit going on like a broken record.

I don't think what he is doing is anything "new." There have been arrogant musicians before him but I think his antics are beyond arrogant at this point. I think he has some personal issues that have not been resolved.

Beyonce did also get attention. I think the Carters are well aware of Kanye's antics and I also believe they reinforce the nonsense.

They all are a bunch of narcissistic bullies the way they embarrassed Beck like that. That was HIS moment to shine.

I was not disapproving. I was interested in reading his opinions.

I never said innovation or influence were the same dear.

Lets say after 1997. I can't think of anyone who has had more impact in the genre in the mainstream, even seeping into the underground.

Eminem and Dre > Kanye until like '04ish(?).

Outkast maybe.

Agree

+1 If his skill on the mic was anywhere near the grandiose *******/I'm God/Genius persona, I think he would be a legend. Unfortunately his skill on the mic is a 3/10 and his ******* persona is a 11/10. I can't fathom how he became famous, he literally bores me on a level of Pitbull. Thats mainstream music for you though, make a pretty video, and rhyme horribly and people eat that **** up.

Really? Outkast somehow gets a pass?

i say Eminem > Outkast

Lol Agree!

But Kanye is more than an MC, which is why he will be remembered for a long time aka legend. Legends can be notorious for things, that doesn't disqualify them.

Do you mean you think he's better or he's had more of an impact? Outkast are absolutely massive. Eminem is the bigger celebrity but, Speakerboxxx/TLB is the highest selling Hip-Hop album of all time & they've sold more in total than Kanye despite not putting an album out in a decade. Kanye hasn't had a track as big as Hey Ya. Everyone and their gran knows it. I don't even think Eminem has had a track that big.

& I can hear quite a bit of Outkast in a few artists as well. Some of the shit Kendrick has put out sounds ridiculous (Bitch Don't Kill My Vibe, Money Trees... & have you heard 'I'? It's uncanny. Sounds exactly like something Andre would have done around 2003-5).

The only people I can hear Eminem in are shit rappers like Princess Superstar.

Thats just it I find his producing deplorable also. Sure hes a hitmaker, but mainstream autotune/lame keyboard tracks have never impressed me. Sure they impress the sheep. Let them have it, Hes awful.

@Black Francis actually researching a bit, seems Speakerboxxx/TLB sold 5.5m but it's counted as 11m cos it's a double album. Take that back.

Outkast are up there since the 90s onwards anyway, better than Eminem.

Southernplaya - ATLiens - Aquemini - Stankonia - Speakerboxxx/TLB

One of the greatest runs of albums in Hip-Hop history surely.

lol make me :ar_15s:

If influence and impact are valid justifications for Kanye certainly Eminem deserves the legendary status of being the iconic white rapper who showed the mainstream white boys can rap.

Add to that white or not.. he can rap, and he can battle rap too.. he's a bit overrated by now but his lyrics have gotten better and as doofy as he can be few rappers dare diss him cause he's one of those mc's who raps even better when he is dissin ppl.

Outkast are in the upper tier of legends but Kanye has influenced basically every rapper or producer who's well known right now.

I don't find that to be a good thing.

But we aren't discussing personal musical preference in fairness.

lol m8

That was my fault sorry. What I meant was, I am taking back the claim that Speakerboxxx/TLB is the highest selling album in Hip-Hop history. It can't be cos it only sold 5.5m units but it's counted as double (11m) cos technically it's two albums. Seems pretty stupid tbh.

Yeah fair enough.

I haven't listened to alot of outkast so i can't speak on their favour but ive followed Eminem's career since he started and he went from a goofy white boy who made fun of himself as Slim shady to a legit rap icon.

You should imo.

Should get Southernplayalisticadillacmuzik and work your way forward. My favourite of theirs is ATLiens but it's worth starting at the beginning and listening to how their sound changed. You'll probably like them, they've got something for everyone tbh.

Jay z, imo

Even weezy, arguably

He is the most overrated rapper of all time and I respectfully disagree.

I'd like to see Killer Mike achieve this status. I think he's gotten into the public eye enough but I don't think he's at that status yet. I feel like he reached his full potential with RAP Music but hasn't hit that level since. Hopefully he does and solidifies his part in hip hop culture.

I understand that which is why I'm not taking anything anyone has said as a basis for declaring him a legend when hes just one in his own mind.

overrated or not he had a bigger impact on rap than kanye imo

i would add eminem to that list as well

I'd say Jay and Kanye are pretty equal for impact honestly. I'd give the street cred argument to Jay though and think he has more spit in his game and ability on the mic. Eminem is a better MC then either one of those guys.

i would argue jay's impact is much more noticeable than kanye's. i'm really curious to hear people's opinions on how it is kanye has impacted rap music beyond making a name for himself. kanye is probably on equal footing in terms of his celebrity status... but as far as hip hop goes jay sort of carried the torch after biggie died and influenced a whole new generation of 'drug lord' persona rappers with crossover pop appeal. wayne was probably the biggest and most notable one, and he clearly takes after jay-z and cites him as his favorite rapper. but you also have young jeezy/rick ross/gucci mane/[insert trap oriented rapper here]... i'm sure most of you probably see this as a bad impact and i'd partially agree but it is a pretty noticable impact nonetheless

and tbh i think biggie is probably the most influential rapper of the last 20 or so years for this very reason.. arguably the most influential rapper since rakim imo

also there was the jay/nas beef which was easily the biggest hip hop beef since the east/west fued and at least partially gave a sort of resurgence to nas's career

not to mention jay put kanye on the map and thus is partially responsible for his impact as well



edit - also, i like em and i could honestly see why people would say he's better than jay but i honestly disagree. i'm in the minority in this opinion on here, i'm sure. to me, reasonable doubt alone > anything eminem has ever done. either way i don't think kanye should be mentioned in the same sentence as either of them in terms of rap skill. even wayne is miles ahead of kanye imo and he gets hated on relentlessly by internet fans who at the same time give the nod to kanye... i will never understand it

He has not impacted Hip Hop musically.

Furthermore, if Biggie and 2pac were still alive he would be no where as popular or relevant.

Why do you think that? Rap is no more immune to sound shifts than any other genre. The 80s turned into 90s gangster rap and all those famous 80s artists were still alive when it happened. All it really takes is one song that sounds different to be a big hit and then everyone follows suit chasing the dollar.

Trying to base 2 rappers deaths on the Popularity of a rapper is neither here or there but just to say We still have Nas, Jay Z, KRS-One, Dr. Dre, Ice Cube, Rakim, LL and other legends still alive and look where hip-hop is now. Sound changes throughout the years

Kanye is better than Tupac as an artist so I don't understand that one Soul. And he'd be making beat after beat for Biggie. He'd probably be an even bigger influence.

pretty sure she was talking about jay z

but you're both wrong ;)

Because he is no where near as talented as them. He also did not make the same impact musically. Because of their deaths, the media needed to replace them with someone else from that era. Jay Z has remained relevant because he follows trends and non related music ventures. He has not musically impacted hip hop as these two have.

Jay-Z is a legend like Barry Manilow is a legend.

KRS, Dr. Dre, Ice Cube, Rakim and LL come from a completely different era than Jay Z. They are not the "same" in that regard.

You know they were not going to put Nas on because Nas was a different Nas back then and I think you know why. Jay Z has NEVER been about nothing. He is a lap dog and does what he is told.

Barry Manilow actually has classics and I don't think he is that bad of an artist as people make it seem. He was a charming performer and he could sing (not the greatest but he could sing nonetheless). Not a big fan of him but just saying. Jay Z is not a good songwriter and his material is very weak. If you look at other rappers from his era it doesn't hold up the same. His appeal is mostly because he is more so a brand not necessarily because he is prolific as an artist.

LOL



Why do you think this?