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Old 05-01-2013, 06:02 AM   #11 (permalink)
The Big Dog
 
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Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Scotland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by realtalk92 View Post
I actually stopped reading when you said this but decided to respond anyway because I just think this implication is disrespectful and laughable. It actualy would be the other way around. Jay Z would be struggling to stay relevant. The entire rap scene would be different if Pac and Biggie were alive.

How can you determine this? How is your prediction of the future any more relevant than mine? The fact is hip-hop has changed. Nobody cares about the gangsta rap bulls**t anymore. There's no more NWA. There's no more East Vs. West. Pac and BIG would have to reinvent themselves to stay relevant. They would manage this by working with others who have proved they can adapt and evolve and above all stay successful/relevant. People like Jay-Z.

Quote:
Originally Posted by realtalk92 View Post
But to discredit their talents and music is absurd. Tupac and Biggie were at their peaks when they were murdered so there is always this what if or what could have been because they were incredibly popular when they had died.
Yes, they were incredibly popular, but do you really believe their popularity would have remained constant had they kept doing the same gimmicky 'gangsta' rap over and over? BIG was well and truly out of material after his second album and the two stayed relevant by beefing with one another. That catapulted their popularity by placing them in the media eye. Without that, and their deaths glorifying rap, they would not have maintained the height of their popularity. They would have had to adapt not only their rapping styles as hip-hop moved into the 'bling' era but also their production and who they worked with. Pac using horrible soul singers to belt out choruses was painful to listen to in 95. I can't imagine listening to it nearly 20 years later. They both would have had to change.

Quote:
Originally Posted by realtalk92 View Post
2pac was one of the top lyrist and writers of his era. He also brought alot of social conscious and political themes in his music unlike Biggie, Jay Z and so forth.
2Pac choose to speak about different subjects, but this doesn't mean Jay-Z never touched on politics or social matters. He just knew there was a fine line between highlighting such themes and becoming preachy. Pac was never the greatest technical rapper and most of his stuff just came across sounding contrived. I am embarrassed for 'Dear Mama'

Quote:
Originally Posted by realtalk92 View Post
biggie did what Jay Z does but he did it 10x time better and he had better songs. They both have more classics than Jay Z as well as albums.
How could 2 album Biggie have more 'classics' than anyone? And if you're not talking about albums, what are you talking about? I'd love to know. Kendrick Lamar has a better discography than BIG.


Quote:
Originally Posted by realtalk92 View Post
Jay Z steals alot of punchlines, rap verses and ideas from other artists. There is a site dedicated to this and to the amound of versus he has stolen from Biggie. Jay Z is not original or creative. Most of his music is mostly the result of his producers and beat makers but if you take all that away... he doesnt really have much lyrical talent outside of that. Rappers like Krs One, Rakim, Nas DMX etc would kill him in a battle/free style even 2pac would have.
Oh wake up, 50% of hip-hop is sampling and recycling old themes, but in a new way. Every rapper out there has borrowed from another and puts their spin on it. Look at BIG's lyrics, look at Pac's lyrics. Look at Nas's, Eminem's, whoevers. There's always traces of their influences and there's always nods to other rappers. Jay-Z is not alone in this. DMX would kill nobody, in anything related to hip-hop.


Quote:
Originally Posted by realtalk92 View Post
Thats different though. I am talking about actual rap verses and lyrics. Jay Z best punchlines that he has done were stolen from previous rappers.
Would like proof to back up your claims.



Quote:
Originally Posted by realtalk92 View Post
When I get some time I will post the sites dedicated to this and even post songs and battles from other rappers that crap all over Jayz career. I am not hating on him. He is successful but no he is not the best rapper alive or period. lol
Don't believe I've said that. 'lol'


Quote:
Originally Posted by realtalk92 View Post
This is what I dont quite understand with your arguement. Jay Z does the SAME thing that you are accusing these two rappers of doing but you seem to think he is better lol
What, makes hip-hop? You just told me he's nothing like 2Pac. Because 2Pac talks about politics and socially conscious material. Are Jay-Z and 2Pac exactly the same as being completely different now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by realtalk92 View Post
Pac is LIGHTYEARS better than both and he released political albums and songs.
This is an opinion. Who cares if he released 'political albums' Immortal Technique releases political albums. More so than 2Pac. Does that mean he's 'LIGHTYEARS' ahead of preachy 2pac?

Quote:
Originally Posted by realtalk92 View Post
The 7 Day Theory Don Killumanti Pac album is better than ANYTHING Jay Z released, is influential and not to mention majority of the songs were written by Pac himself.
Again, an opinion. Not fact. Influential to whom? More influential than The Blueprint? Please explain how?

Quote:
Originally Posted by realtalk92 View Post
Jay Z released Watched the Throne last year one of the most generic albums among other albums he has released and you making him seem like he is this political artistic rapper lol When he makes gimmick songs, raps about n@#$$, streets, gangstas and he is making a million dollars and lives in a mansion lol There is nothing political, challenging or risky in anything that he does. His beats are catchy and I think they are fun to dance to but dont sit up here and insist he is a thought provoking rapper because he isnt lol

I'd love to know where I said Jay-Z was a 'political' rapper. And your own interpretation of 'political' rapper seems jaded. Because Pac talked about the black man getting held down, is that political? Did Pac ever rap about Congress, or writing to his local councillor? I can think of other rappers that did. Does that make them more 'political'
Better question, why do you keep barking out that term like it somehow validates 5 lacklustre 2Psc albums? Does it matter if it's 'political' a term you seem confused as to what it actually means. Does it make it better somehow, please explain.


Quote:
Originally Posted by realtalk92 View Post
JThey have everything to do with this if you are arguing that Jay Z is the best rapper alive and Nas and Rakim are still breathing on this earth.
Okay, now you're just making things up because your argument is that weak. And no, to your original point. They have nothing to do with it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by realtalk92 View Post
Do I really need to explain why Jay Z and Nas/Rakim should never be mentioned in the same sentence??
Yes, please. Oh wait is it coz they are 'political'



Quote:
Originally Posted by realtalk92 View Post
I stopped reading when you insisted that he was more consistent than Nas and Rakim LOL
The second time you've said this. Reading must be another word you're unfamiliar with's meaning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by realtalk92 View Post
Gangta rap seems to be the overall influence of the genre currently in mainstream which is thanks to NWA,etc not Jay Z. Jay Z did not pioneer that.
Jay Electronica, Kanye West, Odd Future, Big K.R.I.T, A$AP Rocky, Hopsin, Kendrick Lamar, El-P, Sadistick, Killer Mike, Aesop Rock, Brother Ali, Lil B, Drake. There's a variety of current hip-hop artists. None of whom show any signs of incorporating 'gangsta rap' into their work. Again, your claims are unsubstantiated and are just plain nonsense. Nobody cares about 'gangsta rap' it is dead along with Eazy-E, 2Pac and BIG. Now get over yourself, and start thinking like a logical person.
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