The Official Nirvana/Kurt Cobain Thread

blastingas10 · 01-24-2012, 03:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zer0

I've seen that documentary quite a few times and I still don't believe any of that. I wouldn't believe anything that came out of that El Duce guy's backside. There were people pointing cameras at him for a documentary that would be watched by a huge number of people, of course he was going to talk shit. As much as Courtney was a fucked-up junkie at the time I really don't believe that she would actually pay someone to kill him.

I definitely prefer In Utero over Nevermind but Bleach is the Nirvana album I reach for first when I do want to listen to them these days, it just suits my current taste a bit more. I can tell you that it is certainly not crap and it has a certain raw intensity to it that only appeared briefly on subsequent releases. Songs like 'Blew', 'About a Girl', 'School', 'Negative Creep' and 'Love Buzz' never get tiring. I've been listening to Nirvana for about 11 years now and for me Bleach has stood up to repeated listens better than Nevermind and In Utero.

I do

Chives · 01-24-2012, 12:52 PM

I recently picked up In Utero and MTV Unplugged and I am definitely liking them. I don't think I feel obligated to pick up anymore Nirvana albums, but I'll definitely listen to these two every now and again. I think I like Cobain's voice a lot more than I immediately realized. I wouldn't call myself a fan yet, though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zer0

I definitely prefer In Utero over Nevermind but Bleach is the Nirvana album I reach for first when I do want to listen to them these days, it just suits my current taste a bit more. I can tell you that it is certainly not crap and it has a certain raw intensity to it that only appeared briefly on subsequent releases. Songs like 'Blew', 'About a Girl', 'School', 'Negative Creep' and 'Love Buzz' never get tiring. I've been listening to Nirvana for about 11 years now and for me Bleach has stood up to repeated listens better than Nevermind and In Utero.

All I can really remember about Bleach is how the first few seconds are really awesome.

Above · 01-27-2012, 05:25 AM

I liked a few songs on Bleach, but it's not the masterpiece die-hard Nirvana Hipsters make it out to be. School, Blew and Negative Creep are awesome.

DoctorSoft · 01-27-2012, 09:32 AM

Definately an underrated Nirvana song. I love the heaviness of the guitars with the weird prettiness of the vocal melody.

Zer0 · 01-27-2012, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blastingas10

I do

Well go on then, tell us more.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Above

I liked a few songs on Bleach, but it's not the masterpiece die-hard Nirvana Hipsters make it out to be. School, Blew and Negative Creep are awesome.

It's not to everyone's taste but it's the Nirvana album I enjoy the most these days. I really wouldn't consider any Nirvana album a masterpiece as they all have their weak moments.

blastingas10 · 01-27-2012, 03:43 PM

There's plenty of evidence out there that raises some questions. I'm not saying on positive he was murdered, but this evidence has made me a little unsure that it was a suicide. First of all, el Duce claimed that courtney offered him 50,000 to kill Kurt, and he passed a lie detector test. No fingerprints were found on the shotgun. I believe his name is Tom grant, a detective hired by Courtney love, has some recorded phone calls between him and kurts lawyer. Kurts lawyer said he was filing for divorce at the time and she (the lawyer) was questioning the suicide because if Kurt had divorced Courtney, she wouldn't have got near as much money; compared to if Kurt commuted "suicide", she would have got it all. It's widely known that courtney is a crazy bitch and many people were scared of her. There's a recording of her threatening an author who was writing a book about Kurt. And there's a testimony from some woman that claims Courtney went into a bar and dragged the woman out by her hair. I'm positive that Courtney wa a violent, crazy bitch. A former nanny that worked for Courtney and Kurt has said that she completely manipulated Kurt and got what she wanted out of him. The "suicide" note could very likely not even be what it is claimed. It's speculated that it's a note about quitting the music business, and that makes sense. It's claimed that the end of the note about his daughter was added by someone else, and a few handwriting experts havent been able to prove that it was written in the same handwriting as the rest of the note. There's more evidence out there.

Zer0 · 01-27-2012, 04:30 PM

Lie detector tests don't provide evidence of anything, and that has been confirmed by scientists. Anybody could pass a lie detector test if they knew how and with a bit of practice. If El Duce did take a lie detector test he could have lied his ass off and still passed. As regards the suicide note, I'm not a handwriting expert by the way, but as far as I can tell from observing the shapes of the letters in both the last few lines and the rest of the note it's all in the same handwriting. It's just that the last few lines were written bigger.

Yes Courtney was a crazy bitch, and yes there is the very small possibility she could have done something like this. But it's all speculation and there's no real evidence of anything and I think nobody in the public eye like that could hide something like this for nearly 18 years without cracking, no matter how crazy they are.

**Frownland** · 01-27-2012, 04:44 PM

Plus Kurt's affiliation with opiates did not help his handwriting or his judgment very much.

blastingas10 · 01-27-2012, 05:06 PM

You're not a handwriting expert, as you said, and there have been experts who have said that it was inconclusive. So, I think the verdict is still open on that.

I don't think El Duce would have any reason to lie about that or any reason to take a lie detector test. The tests aren't always right but they aren't always wrong either. It's not like he was getting any serious attention because of the claims, except for a small interview in a not that publicized documentary. Something tells me he's telling the truth. If he was lying then I think when he was asked to take the test he probably would have said, "**** off, where's the beer?" And not gone out of his way to take the test. But that's just an assumption. I don't think he can be dismissed that easily and there's really no reason to do so, other than making another assumption. I think the verdict on El Duce is still open as well.

El Duce is that somebody who didn't hide it, and not long after the interview he was found dead, got run over by a train. Police didn't even investigate, said he passed out on the tracks. There's something fishy about that to me.

I'm not positive that it was a murder, but I'm not positive that it was a suicide. There's really not sufficient evidence to come to a undeniable conclusion.

**Frownland** · 01-27-2012, 05:09 PM

Well however the means by which he died, most of us will agree that his work with Nirvana was pretty good.

01-27-2012, 05:25 AM	#2123 (permalink)
Above Oh my golly! Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: England Posts: 339	I liked a few songs on Bleach, but it's not the masterpiece die-hard Nirvana Hipsters make it out to be. School, Blew and Negative Creep are awesome. __________________ Be pure, Be vigilant, Behave

01-27-2012, 04:30 PM	#2127 (permalink)
Zer0 ∞ Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Ireland Posts: 3,792	Lie detector tests don't provide evidence of anything, and that has been confirmed by scientists. Anybody could pass a lie detector test if they knew how and with a bit of practice. If El Duce did take a lie detector test he could have lied his ass off and still passed. As regards the suicide note, I'm not a handwriting expert by the way, but as far as I can tell from observing the shapes of the letters in both the last few lines and the rest of the note it's all in the same handwriting. It's just that the last few lines were written bigger. Yes Courtney was a crazy bitch, and yes there is the very small possibility she could have done something like this. But it's all speculation and there's no real evidence of anything and I think nobody in the public eye like that could hide something like this for nearly 18 years without cracking, no matter how crazy they are. __________________ Last FM \| RYM \| The Final Sound

01-27-2012, 04:44 PM	#2128 (permalink)
Frownland SOPHIE FOREVER Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: East of the Southern North American West Posts: 35,548	Plus Kurt's affiliation with opiates did not help his handwriting or his judgment very much. __________________ Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth. d e a f b o x

01-27-2012, 05:09 PM	#2130 (permalink)
Frownland SOPHIE FOREVER Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: East of the Southern North American West Posts: 35,548	Well however the means by which he died, most of us will agree that his work with Nirvana was pretty good. __________________ Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth. d e a f b o x

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01-27-2012, 09:32 AM	#2124 (permalink)
DoctorSoft Rocket Appliances Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 1,335	Definately an underrated Nirvana song. I love the heaviness of the guitars with the weird prettiness of the vocal melody.

01-27-2012, 03:43 PM	#2126 (permalink)
blastingas10 Music Addict Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 2,126	There's plenty of evidence out there that raises some questions. I'm not saying on positive he was murdered, but this evidence has made me a little unsure that it was a suicide. First of all, el Duce claimed that courtney offered him 50,000 to kill Kurt, and he passed a lie detector test. No fingerprints were found on the shotgun. I believe his name is Tom grant, a detective hired by Courtney love, has some recorded phone calls between him and kurts lawyer. Kurts lawyer said he was filing for divorce at the time and she (the lawyer) was questioning the suicide because if Kurt had divorced Courtney, she wouldn't have got near as much money; compared to if Kurt commuted "suicide", she would have got it all. It's widely known that courtney is a crazy bitch and many people were scared of her. There's a recording of her threatening an author who was writing a book about Kurt. And there's a testimony from some woman that claims Courtney went into a bar and dragged the woman out by her hair. I'm positive that Courtney wa a violent, crazy bitch. A former nanny that worked for Courtney and Kurt has said that she completely manipulated Kurt and got what she wanted out of him. The "suicide" note could very likely not even be what it is claimed. It's speculated that it's a note about quitting the music business, and that makes sense. It's claimed that the end of the note about his daughter was added by someone else, and a few handwriting experts havent been able to prove that it was written in the same handwriting as the rest of the note. There's more evidence out there.

01-27-2012, 05:06 PM	#2129 (permalink)
blastingas10 Music Addict Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 2,126	You're not a handwriting expert, as you said, and there have been experts who have said that it was inconclusive. So, I think the verdict is still open on that. I don't think El Duce would have any reason to lie about that or any reason to take a lie detector test. The tests aren't always right but they aren't always wrong either. It's not like he was getting any serious attention because of the claims, except for a small interview in a not that publicized documentary. Something tells me he's telling the truth. If he was lying then I think when he was asked to take the test he probably would have said, "**** off, where's the beer?" And not gone out of his way to take the test. But that's just an assumption. I don't think he can be dismissed that easily and there's really no reason to do so, other than making another assumption. I think the verdict on El Duce is still open as well. El Duce is that somebody who didn't hide it, and not long after the interview he was found dead, got run over by a train. Police didn't even investigate, said he passed out on the tracks. There's something fishy about that to me. I'm not positive that it was a murder, but I'm not positive that it was a suicide. There's really not sufficient evidence to come to a undeniable conclusion.