Of course we would have 99% of music today. Is Metal the only genre in existence then? Iommi laid down a blueprint that became the classic Metal template. No debt to RJD? While he is an annoying little prick, he is vocally proficient and breathed new life into Sabbath.

Randy Rhoads was a brilliant player but he will ultimately be buried under the significance of the first two Ozzy solo albums.

We would have it, but in a different form. Tommy's playing didn't just influence metal! He influenced many people and many genres.

Like The Smiths didn't just influence indie.
Like The Pixies didn't just influence alternative.
Like The Beatles didn't just influence pop.

But in all honesty, I can name 10's of Ozzy songs... I can name one Dio... and that's because Killswitch covered it.

Tony

Sorry, Tony. Shows how much I watch or listen to him, eh?

To be fair, I'm allowed to slip up details with some stuff I've been through tonight...

The Smiths, The Pixies, The Beatles...why are you going off in tangents? Address the fact that you disagree with my assumption of Iommi's utmost importance in Sabbath.

I don't mean to say Ozzy made the band, I agree with you completely. I'm just saying it was better with ozzy.

http://www.musicbanter.com/rock-meta...ath-w-dio.html

Let's talk on here and settle it once and for all, on a non-Nirvana thread lol.

I am so gutted that I grew up in the 80's. How awesome would this be watching it in your teens?

I've seen Ozzy live. ;)

http://www.musicbanter.com/rock-meta...ath-w-dio.html

John Bonham eat your heart out...

Me too. Before you was born. In '88. :p:

lol. I saw him in 2007 I think.

You can see his age so much now if you watch the older vids.

I hope you don't go into this thing my dad does saying how

"you think music was invented for you"

and I'm like

"no, music was invented for everyone, I just like the same older bands you do"

and then he says

"You think Black Sabbath was invented for you a few years ago"

and I walk off saying

"Yeah, so we've gone back in time to the 1970's, 20 years before my conception".


-___-
I swear he says it to impress his friends, then I show him up by knowing more about it!

I haven't listened much to Nirvana, but the other day it dawned on me how much I admire Kurt Cobain for his singing skills. I'm a singer myself, and I when I listen to Kurt Cobain, I can just feel his pain. That is rare, it's beautiful and soft, but when he screams it's like shoving screws into a pencil sharpener, but it's still beautiful.

i love his singing skills. he influced me to sing. he just has a raw sounding vocals. same with staley. they just sound raw.

no one could say that Kurt hasn't been as important as Beethoven was to music

Yes they can.

he has. he opened our minds to real music.

Who has?

And as we know from the other thread Real Music = anything with grungy riffs

No, he popularised a genre of music. He isn't as important because he took ideas from other bands and put them together... Beethoven was a genius... Kurt was an artist. Not quite a genius. I love grunge and Nirvana, but he isn't as important to musical development.

what ideas did he take?

He took the grunge idea, and put beatles with black sabbath. Melody and Aggression. He wasn't the first, but he did it well.

he didn't take the beatles or sabbath...
all of his ideas of his songs are about his life.

Yes he did. He is quoted as saying he made the band to blend the aggression and melody. He was a huge beatles fan, they were his favourate band. Doofus.

i know he liked the beatles. and i knew it was his favorite band but..that doesn't mean he took their ideas.

He apparantly wrote About a Girl after he listened to Meet the Beatles for a few hours. Unsurprisingly it sounds like a Beatles song!

He was always said to 'make an excuse' for the pop style song. I like it though. It's got a Beatles structure to it.

I was shocked that Kurts daughter had that happy birthday sweet 16 and my daddies dead party last week.
That was kind of wierd

Mindless Self Indulgence played it, from what I read. I read nothing of her 'and my daddies dead' part. You need to calm down on posting on every fucking thing you can find.

that doesn't mean he copied it...

^^ Guy sure has a hard on for dead, scruffy singers

yeah i sure do.

Hes talented, but he isn't amazingly original.

nirvana was a great band and always will be. kurt cobain was an amazing artist. kurt, krist, and dave blended the perfect combination to create great music that sounds just a good today as it did back then. now i can honestly say that my views on nirvana have changed/matured over the years but they still created something great.

i was only 13 when kurt died so i really wasn't big into music yet. when i was 14 i bought in utero and from that day on they have remained my favorite band. i'll admit back in the day i would have told you the kurt was murdered but now i can say that yeah he killed himself. i kinda believe it was his whole plan though. he came from being a nobody to being at the top of the charts and really going out while on top. he created nevermind to be, as much as i hate to say it, one of the greatest pop records of all time. now i say pop because more or less grunge was pop music of the early 90's. grunge flew to the top as everybody was tired of all the lame glam rock bands and pop of the 80's and out comes nirvana. he then turned around a went the other direction and created in utero to more or less prove that he was still "punk" as nevermind was so overproduced.

kurt could form these great songs out of a few simple chords blending perfectly the whole quite-loud-quiet thing, borrowed from the pixies not invented by nirvana, and having an amazing voice to top it all off. nevermind was a great record, mind you in utero is their best one in my opinion and bleach is a great album too. i still listen to their music today and it still moves me just as much.

i don't really get the people that put so much emphasis on their lyrics though. other than in utero there wasn't really much reasoning in the lyrics. kurt always said music was first lyrics were second. on their first 2 albums it was pretty much just random lines from his journals strung together and he was more concerned with how the words sounded then what he was actually saying. he was more or less working at creating great pop songs which shows with nevermind. in utero i think his writing style had a little more structure and the main theme of the album more or less had to do with courtney. but still half of nirvana's lyrics don't even make sense. you can also see where when they would write a catchy pop song but then would throw in really abrasive lyrics to offset that for instance 'polly' and 'rape me'

would their music be as great if it came out today? no, but black sabbath wouldn't be as iconic either if they came out today. would they still be creating great music today if kurt didn't kill himself? i think they would still have good music but i don't think they could have ever topped nevermind commercially speaking. kurt created this whole story around his life which he embellished a lot of details depending on how he wanted the story to go and when he reached the top he took his life as what else could he accomplish. loosely quoted, he set out to become a famous rock star and die before he was 30 and he accomplished that. nirvana will always be a great band and kurt cobain was a great musician/artist.

really good post actually, but it was hard to read - try paragaphing? not being a grammar nazi or anything but the way you wrote that does make it almost impossible, painful even, to read. but yeah, the content was really good I felt.

I don't think In Utero was necessarily any less 'over-produced' than Nevermind. Both had really slick production. Not that I think that's a bad thing - I think the heavy, intricate production aesthetic boded well with Nirvana's songs.