Mixing Rock/Metal with Classical: should not be done
 

Claim: rock and metal music, while perfectly good when combined with folk elements, seem to totally suck in every way at every attempt to combine them with classical music elements. I've never come across it done well on a single occasion. Also, virtually all operatic metal is horrid.

Bottomline: imo, attempting a metal/rock/classical hybrid does not have good results and should not be done.



DISCUSS!

Why not?

That's the strange thing about it, I don't really know why not - can't put a finger on it. I just always find that it sounds extraordinarily odd. And that there's something mildly nauseating and out-of-placey about electric guitar riffs and solos that sound like a page right out of one of Bach's fugues. And heavy-vibrato opera singing over hard rock? Just sounds weird.

It works for Mekong Delta with their album Dances of Death in which they perform Mussorgsky's Night on the Bare Mountain. But then again, they're not the typical 'lolz if i do a bit of shredding it's neo-classical!' band.

It also works very well for bands like King Crimson.

I like Therion too.

I've never really given Therion a proper go. What's their best record?

Coming to think of it, I guess that pretty much nails down most of the problem.

How many times has this actually come across though?

You'll see your wrong when you listen to Classico by Tenacious D

Nothing works as well imho.

considering that a large portion of metal is strongly classical influenced and most, if not all, shredding solos are classical based, I think you are wrong.

Explain yourself. There's got to be a large difference between something that is supposed to sound like Bach on speed, and something that is supposed to rock out but MIGHT have some classical influence.

I'm talking about this neo-classical stuff.

the innerworkings of metal share a lot in common with classical. The riff, they would call it "ostinato", is very common in many forms of classical. Much of metal has some symphonic elements and like I said, the very idea behind the shred solos we hear in metal are very neoclassical.

Bands that are classical influenced:

Deep Purple
Rush
99.9% of all power metal bands
most Traditional, NWOBHM, and Speed Metal bands (Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, Rage, Rainbow, Diamond Head)
Malmsteen
Necrophagist (and other similar Tech Death bands)
Symphony X
Dream Theater
Children of Bodom (and Bodom clones)
Dimmu Borgir (and similar bands)
a good portion of Black Metal (especially Bathory)
any Symphonic/Gothic Metal band

Rock; it gets a bit less obvious since it is rooted in Blues. Many prog rock bands though, from what I have heard (like King Crimson, Pink Floyd, ect) take on Classical influences and sound great.

I understand what you are saying - I'm referring more to this metal music that is designed to SOUND classical. Not simply influenced by classical.

The band 'YES' is the most influenced rock band by classical music, In my opinion. Of course I think that the Beatles were also influenced by classical music.

You mean stuff like this?
YouTube - Children of bodom - Four seasons

I don't see what is wrong with that.

That, I liked. But it was a classic piece.

Still, that = good.

Something in imitation of that but with cookie monster vocals on top: odd.

Something in imitation of that but with full vibrato operatic vocals: absurd.

I still dont understand exactly what it is you're getting at in this thread.

I like rock bands that use strings, mainly. Probably because of that I have learned to enjoy bands that are influenced by classical, or work with orchestra's.

Given some of the bands that have already been mentioned (I was tempted to mention Bathory and Maiden and also Metallica's S&M album) I'm struggling to understand exactly what it is with classical music you dont like, as it sounds as though what you really dont like are certain vocalists?

sounds like it just isn't your cup of tea. Some will dig it, some wont.

Eh, well at the end of the day I guess it has to come down to that. I just find it sounds odd or misplaced, is all. Everyone's got their tolerance levels at the end of the day, like you say.


Regarding strings, it's not strings I don't like - it's those scalic electric guitar riffs that are trying to sound like Bach, with heavy drumming on top, with heavy vibrato operatic vocals. I think it leads to a sound that seems altogether peculiar and out of place. But like Muzak said, ultimately all it boils down to is that it isn't my cup of tea.

I'm interested in how many people share my sentiments on this matter. It seems, so far, not very many. Sigh.

When is their any problem with a sound mix? I find it better then listening to the 500 shitty power metal/brutal death metal bands that all sound the same,

I said at the start, it's not sound mixes I oppose. I like combinations of metal and folk, for example. What I don't like are hybrids that I feel sound extraordinarily & unhealthily peculiar and wrong.

Could you give some examples of what you are on about?
Do you mean those many clone nu-metally bands with opera-style female singers who do it for nothing more than the gimmic?
Metallica + Orchestra tour kind of stuff?
Dream Theater?

yeah like others have said...it's just not your cup of tea.....that doesn't mean it shouldn't be done though.

Upon reflection, I think it's like Skid Mark said - I'm thinking of those clone bands with operatic female vocalists who are just pandering to a gimmick. Bands like Epica, etc. With that said, I've never really found a "good" one that does it well, either.

Personally, I don't think metal and recording equipment should be mixed.

aphuckinmen

and what? no one's mentioned elo?

You're pretty.

i always had a cush on rob gorden

well I'm basically him. In a sense......

not really.


Damn.

do you obsessively make top five lists?

man i'm gettin desprate,....

I can do you one better, baby. I make top TEN lists.


that's right.

please tell me youre over 30,...please please please

Once again:.....



Damn.

what a shame,....
i would have made a wonderful charlie,....

I have no doubt.

you make me want to make you a mix tape

I'm sure you'd be doing me a great service if you did.

Plus, I'd reciprocate.

how old are you?

:) 19.

whats one genre you generally stay away from,...and whats one you listen to mostly?

I avoid metal and new country. mostly....that's tough. Indie, Electronic and Post-Punk are big for me.