200 greatest guitarists in rock (great songs, single, hendrix, Kurt Cobain, cover)

dac · 04-21-2009, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by holynapkin

Kurt deserves no spot on that list in my opinion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by holynapkin

I don't understand how three-chord songs (exaggerating) influence anything. He's fine, but I don't think he deserves a spot in all honesty. Well, he may. I'm just a hater

Like, Zakk Wylde is a 100x better than him in my opinion and is one spot below. His solo in No More Tears is phenomenal.

I'm gonna go ahead and quote myself from earlier in this thread:

Quote:

Originally Posted by dac

I personally love Cobain and grunge in particular for what it did for guitars. It wasn't the least bit innovative or groundbreaking, but they showed that you could write great songs without having wankery-laden solos and what not, and just coming off of the 80s metal movement, that was huge.

holynapkin · 04-21-2009, 08:39 PM

Alright, I was being a bit harsh when I said I didn't think he deserved a spot but I think he gets too much credit. Bands like Screaming Trees and Mudhoney, who influenced Nirvana a great deal, don't really get any credit and yet both came before Nirvana did. Had there been no Mudhoney, I doubt Nirvana would have sounded like they did. Don't get me wrong, I own every Nirvana CD, but I really only find myself listening to four or five of their songs whereas I can listen to all of Mudhoney, half of Screaming Trees, and all of other bands like Soundgarden. I believe that Kurt's such vast influence was merely chance. For whatever reason, which I still do not understand, they were the ones who got the majority of the grunge credit so to speak. You can talk about raw emotion, but I'd argue that both Eddie Vedder, while I can't stand him as a person, and Layne Staley both put out a lot more emotion than he does.

Indeed, Kurt did show the world that you can make beautiful music out of simplicity, I believe that his influence, while it is vast indeed, was all sheer chance. Had, say, Screaming Trees broken out as the grunge front men, I'd be arguing the this the complete opposite way.

boo boo · 04-22-2009, 05:25 AM

Everyone has influences, that's no reason to discredit anybody, thing is, Cobain has influenced more people than anyone that's influenced him (save Pixies), especially as a guitar player.

And no saying "everyone he influences sucks" is not a counter argument, he made a big impact and influence is influence no matter who it is.

lucifer_sam · 04-22-2009, 01:18 PM

i just realized you have J. Mascis at #103. seems a little strange to be below D. Boon, wouldn't you say?

and i thought you liked him.

Yumdubaby · 04-22-2009, 02:37 PM

in my opinion Hendrix, Page, and everyone else that you guys were arguing about for "originality, influence, and talent" were good for their time but the new generation of guitarists like Nils Norberg, Per Nilsson, and kiko loureiro are just superior in every way.

i dont mean any disrespect to the old school "influencial" guys but its proven that musicians get better and better with every generation that passes

The Monkey · 04-22-2009, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yumdubaby

in my opinion Hendrix, Page, and everyone else that you guys were arguing about for "originality, influence, and talent" were good for their time but the new generation of guitarists like Nils Norberg, Per Nilsson, and kiko loureiro are just superior in every way.

i dont mean any disrespect to the old school "influencial" guys but its proven that musicians get better and better with every generation that passes

Never heard of them.

holynapkin · 04-22-2009, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boo boo

Everyone has influences, that's no reason to discredit anybody, thing is, Cobain has influenced more people than anyone that's influenced him (save Pixies), especially as a guitar player.

And no saying "everyone he influences sucks" is not a counter argument, he made a big impact and influence is influence no matter who it is.

That really wouldn't have been a good counter-argument because that's a subjective matter anyway.

boo boo · 04-22-2009, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lucifer_sam

i just realized you have J. Mascis at #103. seems a little strange to be below D. Boon, wouldn't you say?

and i thought you liked him.

I think Boon deserves to be higher, Boon was by far one of the more gifted punk guitarists and he was a big influence on everything from RHCP to Fugazi, but yeah I like Mascis, I could see him going higher maybe.

lucifer_sam · 04-22-2009, 10:49 PM

well i'm just saying that because it's pretty obvious that J. was slightly more talented as a guitarist. and i understand, Boon had a much wider influence as a songwriter, but you gotta figure, Mascis actually spent the effort to combine all those influences of his into one singular entity (which had an enormous impact upon modern indie rock).

i like both as songwriters, i would have loved to see Minutemen while Boon was still alive. but it's pretty clear to me who the better guitarist was.

boo boo · 04-22-2009, 10:52 PM

And Boon didn't combine his influences to create his own style? I'd say he did. And yeah Mascis has a lot of indie influence so I might move him up a bit.

04-22-2009, 01:18 PM	#464 (permalink)
lucifer_sam Unrepentant Ass-Mod Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 3,921	i just realized you have J. Mascis at #103. seems a little strange to be below D. Boon, wouldn't you say? and i thought you liked him. __________________ first.am

04-22-2009, 10:49 PM	#469 (permalink)
lucifer_sam Unrepentant Ass-Mod Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 3,921	well i'm just saying that because it's pretty obvious that J. was slightly more talented as a guitarist. and i understand, Boon had a much wider influence as a songwriter, but you gotta figure, Mascis actually spent the effort to combine all those influences of his into one singular entity (which had an enormous impact upon modern indie rock). i like both as songwriters, i would have loved to see Minutemen while Boon was still alive. but it's pretty clear to me who the better guitarist was. __________________ first.am

04-21-2009, 08:39 PM	#462 (permalink)
holynapkin Groupie Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 26	Alright, I was being a bit harsh when I said I didn't think he deserved a spot but I think he gets too much credit. Bands like Screaming Trees and Mudhoney, who influenced Nirvana a great deal, don't really get any credit and yet both came before Nirvana did. Had there been no Mudhoney, I doubt Nirvana would have sounded like they did. Don't get me wrong, I own every Nirvana CD, but I really only find myself listening to four or five of their songs whereas I can listen to all of Mudhoney, half of Screaming Trees, and all of other bands like Soundgarden. I believe that Kurt's such vast influence was merely chance. For whatever reason, which I still do not understand, they were the ones who got the majority of the grunge credit so to speak. You can talk about raw emotion, but I'd argue that both Eddie Vedder, while I can't stand him as a person, and Layne Staley both put out a lot more emotion than he does. Indeed, Kurt did show the world that you can make beautiful music out of simplicity, I believe that his influence, while it is vast indeed, was all sheer chance. Had, say, Screaming Trees broken out as the grunge front men, I'd be arguing the this the complete opposite way.

04-22-2009, 02:37 PM	#465 (permalink)
Yumdubaby Groupie Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 17	in my opinion Hendrix, Page, and everyone else that you guys were arguing about for "originality, influence, and talent" were good for their time but the new generation of guitarists like Nils Norberg, Per Nilsson, and kiko loureiro are just superior in every way. i dont mean any disrespect to the old school "influencial" guys but its proven that musicians get better and better with every generation that passes