Smart music for dumb people? What do you mean?

I still think Tool are amazing. And how could you take them too seriously? They are a serious band who explore pretty deep shit. They are meant to provoke thought.

Tool >>>>>>>>>> Isis and Neurosis

Because people always LOVE to say something like, "YOU COULD NEVER WRITE A SONG AS DEEP AS STINKFIST!!!" Tool doesn't make very thoughtful or witty or complex metaphors like people seem to think, they're relatively simple metaphors and they really beat the **** out of dead horses. They try really, really hard to be "deep" or "different."

You know Maynard was a hilarious black comedian, right? I don't doubt that he left his comical abilities behind to become this all-serious, "deep" band leader.

Honestly, Isis and Neurosis have done more for metal than Tool will have ever done. Quite often, Tool plays a boring, up down up down three chord combinations. They're really monotonous.

Isis and Neurosis can both create dense, layered sonics that are a lot more powerful than Tool.

Firstly, people who say stuff like that are obviously dumb and unknowledgeable. I'm not one to go about saying "YOU COULD NEVER WRITE SONGS AS DEEP AS TOOL." I agree with you on that; I don't like people who talk about Tool like they are untouchable Gods or some shit.

Secondly, since when was Maynard a hilarious black comedian? I know he was close to Bill Hicks and often incorporated black comedy into many of his viewpoints on the world but he was never a comedian. He studied art and wanted a career in art before participating in Tool; as far as I know he was always interested in profound and alternative ways of looking at the world. In fact, in most interviews/ press conferences/ etc I've seen with him he has always come across as a very, very serious person.

Plus anyway, comedy and specifically black comedy isn't lighthearted at all... it is often a very serious method of critiquing the world.

Thirdly, I agree with you in a way that Tool haven't done much for 'metal' and this is because I don't really place Tool in metal bucket at all. I see them more as art rock/progressive.

Fourthly, I definitely don't believe Tool are monotonous. They are anything but. Both emotionally and technically their music is very complex and layered. Can you give me any examples of where they use boring up-down-up-down three chord riffs? Because as far as I'm aware their technicality is way more advanced than that.

Maynard started out as a comedian, but he ended up going towards music anyway. He said so in an interview.

You ignored the rest of what I said about their metaphors being uncreative or simple. They try too hard to seem intelligent.

...Comedy is lighthearted, even black comedy. The point of comedy is to make light of a situation or event, and yeah, critique can be funny.

Tool is progressive metal. I haven't heard anyone disagree on this.

Their songs are usually 6 minutes long, and it's not uncommon for them to be longer. Stinkfist is pretty much a couple chords, H does have more than a few basic chords, but then it gets ****ing plastered with them, Hooker With a Penis is monotonous (but hilarious), a lot of Aenima is like that. Lateralus is a bit better, but parts of it still suffers from up down up down monotony. 10,000 Days is so, SO ****ing boring. It's loaded with filler, and the songs that aren't meant to be filler, (mainly Wings for Marie stuff) is just really, really long with microscopic changes, which they pass off as complexity.

How many times can Maynard reference his mother in a single album?
10,000 days gave us the answer.

Boring and monotonus might be your opinion of Tool, but seeing as though their album AEnima reached double platinum status and the albums AEnima AND Lateralus both recieved grammy award for best metal performance, and both albums Lateralus and 10,000 Days debuted at #1 on the billboard charts, I hardly think thats the way it is.

Makes sense, seeing as 10,000 is a concept album about his mother who was in a coma for 10,000 days before she passed away.

That really doesn't mean jack**** considering Slipknot also won that award one year. :laughing:

And when did an album being #1 on the billboard charts have any bearing on the quality of the music itself?

Not saying the albums suck (much), but nevertheless these are poor arguements.

I have heard plenty of people disagree with Tool's status as progressive 'metal.'

I agree with you in that Stinkfist and Hooker with a Penis are both some of their most basic songs which get a bit monotonous. H is also not a favourite of mine. They are only 3 songs. Most other of my favourite songs by Tool are littered with crazy odd time signatures and complex odd-timing guitar. Many of their songs conists of guitar/bass/drum work which isn't repeated at all, in fact I love that they can have so many great riffs in songs and not not repeat them. Personally, I think Lateralus is fantastic. 10,000 days has some great songs on it like Vicarious, Jambi, The Pot, Rosetta Stoned, and Right in Two. There are a lot of boring fillers on that album but they're overweighed by some fantastic songs and concepts explored.

You say that their songs go for 6 minutes or even longer. Well... length is a huge aspect of what prog is. You'd be hard pressed to find any type of progressive band that has short songs.

Look at all the artists who have received awards for their music. I hope you find every single one of them to be amazing, since that seems to be your logic.

Fine, genre is irrelevant, anyway.

Right, I named 3 songs. I'm not going to sort through Tool's catalogue and give you every single song that's up down, up down, three chord combinations peppered with some picking that's at an odd timing. People overrate the awkward timings of Tool songs. Vicarious is just Schism backwash. The Pot feels out of place. I don't even remember Rosetta Stoned, and Right in Two has so much needless quietness that just gets passed off as pseudo-intellectual.

Yeah, six minutes of three or so chords with a little bit of awkwardly timed plucking is long and dull. It's not that I don't expect them to have long songs, but I expect them to do something with them, rather than take up space.