The Groove Metal Thread

[Unknown Soldier]

Originally Posted by SATCHMO

[Relax]

I would never go so far as to call Bad Brains a metal band, but they did take the distorted metal sound break it out of its confines, and laid down a lot of attitudinal riffs that were pretty loose, but right in the pocket, so I know what's he's saying and agree to an extent..

They certainly weren`t a metal band, but the attitude with which they performed their hardcore and reggae style was certainly influential.

[SATCHMO]

Originally Posted by BastardofYoung

Bad Brains just had nothing to do with groove metal. I wanted to know the research done. Bad Brains also had nothing remotely metal. They were out before Thrash. Misfits I would see as more of an inspiration for thrash and ultimately groove metal than Bad Brains.

Not trolling either.

At no point in the OP does it say that Bad Brains were any sort of metal band. They were not but they were crossover punk, that crossover incorporating reggae and yes, metal. They took what was then considered a metal sound and put a groove on it, and part of the metal community took notice and was influenced by it. Do you really need reinforcement from someone who's paid to write to accept that? It's not grad school, buddy.

[BastardofYoung]

Bad Brains were crossover now?

[SATCHMO]

Originally Posted by BastardofYoung

Bad Brains were crossover now?

****, yes they were crossover!!!

[BastardofYoung]

If you say so.

[Unknown Soldier]

Originally Posted by BastardofYoung

If you say so.

Have you actually ever listened to the Bad Brains?

[hip hop bunny hop]

Well, yeah,, similarities between Exhorder and Pantera on those records will always be there. But do I think it was a case of let's rip off this band by Pantera... not really. As said, the two albums in question came out around the same time, and were recorded around the same time most likely. Had "Slaughter in the Vatican" been out for a year or two before "Cowboys from Hell", the debate would be different.

The Pantera album came out around 3 months before Exhorder, not only did it pre-date the Exhorder album, but Pantera were already an established band and the Pantera album was always far better than the Exhorder album anyway. When Exhorder or their fans scream that Pantera stole their sound its just sour grapes.

I'm just going to pretend I'm arguing against 1 person, ok?

There is more to influence than album release dates.

Pantera's sound, as pointed out earlier, radically changed from Glam to Groove. This change is largely attributed to Mr. Anselmo.

What city did Mr. Anselmo come from before joining Pantera? New Orleans. What band had already established a sound that would later be showcased on "Slaughter in the Vatican"? Exhorder. Further, not only as Anselmo aware of Exhorder, he had their demos (which, yes, were out '86 and '88)

So forgive me, but when a band which had all the hallmarks of Glam, suddenly jumps from the sinking Glam ship, and suddenly finds itself sounding a LOT - down to the ****ing vocals - like another band whose existence they were certainly cognizant of....

... I find it hard to believe they arrived at that sound through independent evolution. And I have difficulty finding them to be sincere.

[Urban Hat€monger ?]

Originally Posted by BastardofYoung

Bad Brains were crossover now?

Yes they were.

Have you not heard their I Against I album?
Full of cheesy 80s sounding metal guitar solos.

[Unknown Soldier]

Originally Posted by hip hop bunny hop

What city did Mr. Anselmo come from before joining Pantera? New Orleans. What band had already established a sound that would later be showcased on "Slaughter in the Vatican"? Exhorder. Further, not only as Anselmo aware of Exhorder, he had their demos (which, yes, were out '86 and '88)

So forgive me, but when a band which had all the hallmarks of Glam, suddenly jumps from the sinking Glam ship, and suddenly finds itself sounding a LOT - down to the ****ing vocals - like another band whose existence they were certainly cognizant of....

... I find it hard to believe they arrived at that sound through independent evolution. And I have difficulty finding them to be sincere.

An artist running off with the demos of another band and pinching their act....sounds scandalous, seems like the music industry is full of these immoral types, whatever happened to original thought!

Pantera jumping off the glam ship and into something new, seems like a great move in hindsight. I imagine a lot of bands by the late 80's wanted to be free of the glam/hair metal tag.

Nobody has suggested here that Pantera arrived at their sound through independent evolution but "Cowboys from Hell" will be remembered, whereas "Slaughter in the Vatican" will only be remembered by music banter buffs.

Finally release dates are far more important than you believe, as it can often make or break a band, Exhorder are a perfect example of this, as were Diamond Head in the era of the NWOBHM. These were bands who just missed the boat as it were and as the say the rest is history.

[BastardofYoung]

Originally Posted by Urban Hatemonger

Yes they were.

Have you not heard their I Against I album?
Full of cheesy 80s sounding metal guitar solos.

Only thing I ever thought Bad Brains got right, was the RIOR album. "I Against I" was just ok, but I would not call it Crossover. If anything I would call Bad Brains a fusion band, fusing Hardcore with Raggae and Metal on that album, but not Crossover. Crossover is Crumbsuckers, Cryptic Slaughter, Attitude Adjustment, D.R.I., Cro-Mags, Suicidal Tendencies, Wehrmacht or (early) Corrosion of Conformity to name a few... listening to those bands it has a specific sound and style attacted to it, and Bad Brains are nothing close to that sound. I would refer to Bad Brains more as a fusion group.