The Official Police Thread

[boo boo]

His basslines are simple but inventive, it's the driving force of their sound, gives it that reggae flavor and he has a great tone.

He IS a pretty capable player. And does let loose on some songs more than others especially the earlier albums.

[OctaneHugo]

Originally Posted by TheBig3KilledMyRainDog

Sting knows, and has always known, what not to play. As a Bass player he knows where he's needed and he's not worried about his penis shrinking if he doesn't get a solo.

Sting's someone, to me, who's always managed to hear and be in the groove. I get the idea that he doesn't care what instrument he's playing.

That's...cool? I never said he was bad, he's just not like the greatest player in the universe

I mean does doing your job well makes you the greatest ever at it?

[TheBig3]

Originally Posted by OctaneHugo

That's...cool? I never said he was bad, he's just not like the greatest player in the universe

I mean does doing your job well makes you the greatest ever at it?

Well...what would make you the greatest ever? And who would you say is?

[OctaneHugo]

Doing outstanding things or being a revolutionary. Sure it's a bit arbitrary, but it works.

Are you going to put Sting up there with Entwistle?

[TheBig3]

Originally Posted by OctaneHugo

Doing outstanding things or being a revolutionary. Sure it's a bit arbitrary, but it works.

Are you going to put Sting up there with Entwistle?

I think Sting is much better than Entwhistle, but I will say thats my opinion. Heres how I'm making my formula.

To do an "outstanding" or "revolutionary" job implies you're not doing your job. It almost implicates that person in going above and beyond their job. Some call that great, some call it wankery in this case.

That being said, lets make it applicable to these two players. First I think its fair to say that they are doing very different things. Entwhistle is often playing lead bass. It certainly requires talent, but it offers no parameters. I can solo my ass off, and if thats my job I only really have to keep it in key. People aren't relying on me, they're supporting me.

What Sting is doing, as Boo Boo stated, is akin to Michael Anthony. Van Halens bassist is notorious for doing the least possible so EVH can throw fireworks. But Sting is doing far more than, for example, Running with the Devil's one-note fiasco is, he's out of the way, but in that realm, he's maximizing his potential.

Sting is operating with musical theory. He's very aware of how to push boundries from conventional western music. I don't think this matters in the scheme of things, but he's looking to work outside the realm of whats been done. When you see Sting play Bass, its a good reminder of what the instrument is supposed to do. Music, as with sports, is built upon field generals.

Sting's the guy on the field making sure theres a win, not making sure his contract doubles for next year. He fills in where its needed, he makes sure gaps are closed and sounds are filled out. Its almost insane to compare him to Entwhistle because while they both play Bass, the both don't do with the Bass what the other does.

I should point out that it would be a grave oversight to compare them and thusly disparidge Entwhistle because he doesn't deserve it. But if there was a way to play "fantasy rock band" like people play fantasy football, then I don't know what reason there would be to take Entwhistle over Sting unless your goal was to recreate The Who.

[boo boo]

I just think it's immature to write off Anthony for ONE performance. His use of basic root notes is pretty influencial on the metal genre. And there are some songs that have some pretty solid basswork. He does his job so I don't know why you don't respect that.

Also I was wrong when I said that Anthony and Sting are the same kind of bassist, Sting is much more skilled and IMO his instrumentation is the main attraction of the ensemble as opposed to Summers, The Police has a more bass oriented sound than a guitar oriented one. While with Van Halen it's obvious which instrument is the main attraction of the ensemble.

Summers was more restrained in The Police than Sting was, he's capable of some seriously technical Robert Fripp stuff but you mostly only hear that from his solo work and the stuff he did with, well..... Robert Fripp. Still all 3 were skilled musicians and they all let it show but like all the best tight ensembles it complements the music.

Also bassists aren't supposed to be restrained, as in it's alright if they are but they dont have to be, it's simply the bassist's job to keep the rhythm. But HOW they do it is entirely up to them.

While players like Geddy, Flea and Entwistle show off a lot they still keep the rhythm and overall they still operate as bass players. Guys like Victor Wooten do not.

There's a great variety of rhythms, they can be very simple or very complex but they're still rhythms and they dont have to be exclusively one or the other. I do stick up for guys like Anthony who don't show off and just do what they do well. But I won't pretend they're better than bassists who can exhibit a lot of chops AND do their job at the same time.

Though for me, a great bassist doesnt have to be a virtuoso he just has to contribute something special, basslines that are great enough that you could enjoy hearing them on their own, Sting does that for me. I tend to prefer bassists who don't get buried under the guitar, just strumming a few notes over and over, though I can also appreciate bassists who play like that if they do it well, Ian Hill for example.

[TheBig3]

Boobs...why do you take such offense to

A. an opinion and

B. something said about someone I assume you've never met.

[OctaneHugo]

Originally Posted by TheBig3KilledMyRainDog

I think Sting is much better than Entwhistle

To do an "outstanding" or "revolutionary" job implies you're not doing your job. It almost implicates that person in going above and beyond their job. Some call that great, some call it wankery in this case.

So doing even better than you're expected to do is...bad? Is that really the case you're going to make? We should all just be average? Get real.

That being said, lets make it applicable to these two players. First I think its fair to say that they are doing very different things. Entwhistle is often playing lead bass. It certainly requires talent, but it offers no parameters. I can solo my ass off, and if thats my job I only really have to keep it in key. People aren't relying on me, they're supporting me.

To say that all Entwistle did was go off on a tangent is stupid. For one thing, he was already competing with Keith Moon's drumming, Townshend's guitars (and later on synths) and Daltrey's vocals, so honestly play lead bass in The Who was a backing track anywhere else. Yes, he did shine through a lot, but he did just about everything else there is to playing the bass incredibly well.

What Sting is doing, as Boo Boo stated, is akin to Michael Anthony. Van Halens bassist is notorious for doing the least possible so EVH can throw fireworks.

Except Van Halen is terrible.

But Sting is doing far more than, for example, Running with the Devil's one-note fiasco is, he's out of the way, but in that realm, he's maximizing his potential.

Which is to have decent talent but not as much as the best bass players ever. Some of these guys were out of the way, just like Sting, but did a better job of it.

Sting is operating with musical theory. He's very aware of how to push boundries from conventional western music. I don't think this matters in the scheme of things, but he's looking to work outside the realm of whats been done. When you see Sting play Bass, its a good reminder of what the instrument is supposed to do. Music, as with sports, is built upon field generals.

And plenty of field generals in sports are regarded as simply above-average.

Sting's the guy on the field making sure theres a win, not making sure his contract doubles for next year. He fills in where its needed, he makes sure gaps are closed and sounds are filled out. Its almost insane to compare him to Entwhistle because while they both play Bass, the both don't do with the Bass what the other does.

Except I'm comparing the quality of their play, not the style.

I should point out that it would be a grave oversight to compare them and thusly disparidge Entwhistle because he doesn't deserve it. But if there was a way to play "fantasy rock band" like people play fantasy football, then I don't know what reason there would be to take Entwhistle over Sting unless your goal was to recreate The Who.

And now you're assuming the only guy to ever play really loud bass is Entwistle.

[TheBig3]

nothing against you, but I never argue with quote spliters. I haven't since Crowquill left because it digresses into an off-topic pissing match, and whole points are glazed over with comments like...

And plenty of field generals in sports are regarded as simply above-average.

I explained myself, its clearly a matter of opinon so i'm going to let it die. If you want to discuss the point I made about Sting, I'm still game.

[boo boo]

Originally Posted by OctaneHugo

So doing even better than you're expected to do is...bad? Is that really the case you're going to make? We should all just be average? Get real.

Can I just go on the record to say you're both wrong?

Sting isn't better than Entwistle but he's not an average bassist either.

Though in Big3's defence I think he's only talking in terms of preference.

To say that all Entwistle did was go off on a tangent is stupid. For one thing, he was already competing with Keith Moon's drumming, Townshend's guitars (and later on synths) and Daltrey's vocals, so honestly play lead bass in The Who was a backing track anywhere else. Yes, he did shine through a lot, but he did just about everything else there is to playing the bass incredibly well.

Eh. Big3 hates on prog rock a lot and he seems to hate musicians who are very technical. But The Police WERE technical, just because they didn't play swedish speed metal and because they associated themselves with new wave didn't mean they were just some kids who picked up their instruments because of The Sex Pistols, they all had previous experience with prog and jazz music and they were way more skilled than the majority of british bands who came around in the punk era.

Except Van Halen is terrible.

STFU

Which is to have decent talent but not as much as the best bass players ever. Some of these guys were out of the way, just like Sting, but did a better job of it.

Eh, you're going by technical skill and he isn't. And again you're both wrong. There's many styles to bass playing, I don't think less technical players are automatically better like Big3 but I don't think more technical players are automatically better like you.

Entwistle and Sting really can't be compared, their styles and methods are completely different. Entwistle isn't even THAT skilled technically it's just his influence is unmatched in popular music with the exception of James Jamerson, there are various more technical players than him but they aren't greater than him because they weren't as influencial or groundbreaking.

And thus not every player who is more technically capable than Sting is automatically better. Sting compensates for his lack of virtuosity by having his own style, yeah it's clear what his influences are, but back then no other player really sounded like him.

Except I'm comparing the quality of their play, not the style.

And what's the point? Big3 never said Sting was a more capable player than Entwistle so why even argue about it?

And now you're assuming the only guy to ever play really loud bass is Entwistle.

I think he's pretty aware that's not the case.

Anyway, I do hate it when people think bass players are not very important and that they shouldn't take take advantage of their abillity. But what Big3 doesn't seem to understand is that Sting's abillity IS quite present, and what you don't understand is that avoiding flashy bass solos doesn't equal lack of skill.