PLEASE help settle dispute w/husband & sons

[kearnine]

I'm the mother of two boys, aged 15 and almost 17, whose rock band is gaining some attention locally and online. I enjoy their catchy new song, "Ink", but I've told them I have a problem with the song's recurring and final line, written by my 15-year-old:

"I'm so sick of wasting time on you."

As we've provided guitar lessons supported the boys' developing talents and the band, my husband and I have made it clear that the song lyrics and overall tenor of their music needs to stay positive. At least while we're in charge, footing the bill, and responsible for teaching them values. They have been happy to follow this guideline.

But now we have this lyric. To me, it's negative and mean-spirited. And suddenly my husband and I are in different universes on the subject. He and the boys react to my objection like I'm completely nuts. The boys say, "It's just a lyric! No one would think we actually say stuff like that! There are lyrics out there that are way worse!" (That last point is true, of course, but carries little weight with me in this debate.)

My husband calls the lyric ironic and "funny", which utterly baffles me.

All three of them reject my perception about songwriters and performers - that usually, purposely, they are putting forth who they are in their lyrics - their philosophic values, life experience, etc. So, I'm told, it's silly to assume that a person hearing "Ink" might think, "Sheesh, is that what these guys would say to a girl during a break-up?

Or, worse, "Maybe treating people like that is part of the reason why these guys have so much game."

Here's what I need. Please tell me your opinion on this debate. Do you think the lyric "I'm so sick of wasting time on you" is negative?

Below are the full lyrics. You can listen to the song on [possible promo removed] - the name of the band is [possible promo removed] and the song is called "Ink".

Here we are just wasting time again
But who even cares
When all you want is to breathe again
And feel secure

Heart in hand
All you see is red
And I'm so sick of wasting time on you

Smile because this is all for you
So let's be kids again
Say when and I'll stop
Pouring your poison

Heart in hand
Head in hand
And I'm so sick of wasting ink on you

Heart in hand
All you see is red
And I'm so sick of wasting time on you

The last line slows way down, its words leaving a strong final impression in the listener's mind.

BTW, could we avoid getting into "It's art and art is sacred so anything goes" territory? That pretty much needs to wait for when the boys are on their own. For now, I'm the parent, they are the children. While I respect and appreciate and do what I can to support the development of their talents and artistry, I am also responsible for teaching them values. Like kindness. And a bit of restraint.

Thanks very much in advance for your opinions on this. It may seem like a small thing but, when you're raising kids, it's moments like this one that can really matter in the long run.

Sincerely,
Caroline

[Guybrush]

If your son is 15, he's a real person with real feelings and I think it's time to let him explore other parts of his personality and emotional life than just positive feelings. Noone is positive all the time and pretending like you are probably isn't healthy, so let him express himself. You know teenagers, they need to figure themselves out and it's just part of growing up.

The line itself is negative. I'm not sure I fully understand the lyrics, but is it so bad not wanting to "waste" time on someone who is a negative influence in your life? There are times when you need to stand up for yourself and your interests and maybe such feelings can be a strength rather than a weakness, even if they are negative.

Also, if you've managed to instill positive values into him for 15 years, then they are already deep rooted and I wouldn't worry much about a song.

I did way worse in my teens and I'm a kind soul

[VEGANGELICA]

Hi Caroline,

Originally Posted by kearnine

Here's what I need. Please tell me your opinion on this debate. Do you think the lyric "I'm so sick of wasting time on you" is negative?

Yes, I feel that the lyric is negative because when people are feeling frustrated with someone in a relationship, ideally they express their emotions in a constructive manner before getting to the stage of thinking or saying, "I'm so sick of wasting time on you," which is verbally abusive.

Originally Posted by kearnine

As we've provided guitar lessons supported the boys' developing talents and the band, my husband and I have made it clear that the song lyrics and overall tenor of their music needs to stay positive. At least while we're in charge, footing the bill, and responsible for teaching them values. They have been happy to follow this guideline.

It sounds as if perhaps at the start you all thought you were in agreement on what it means to "stay positive" and have only now discovered that your views differ. Being able to express your feelings and perceptions and have an open debate, as you are all doing, is a great example of how to deal with disagreements.

Something to consider is that a song that appears negative on the surface might actually serve as an example of what not to do in a relationship, and thus the song might have a positive impact on listeners.

If people get to the point of wishing to say, "I feel like I'm wasting time on you and I'm sick of it," then that is a red flag about the relationship dynamics. Someone listening to the song might view the song as showing what we should *avoid*.

Similarly, if a person hears someone say, "I'm sick of wasting time on you," that is a red flag to get out of the relationship or at least step back and discuss how to deal with problems in a constructive and non-hurtful manner.

Originally Posted by kearnine

But now we have this lyric. To me, it's negative and mean-spirited. And suddenly my husband and I are in different universes on the subject. He and the boys react to my objection like I'm completely nuts.

The possibility that your husband and boys are treating you as if your view were "nuts" concerns me, because you have a right to your perceptions, just as they have a right to theirs. If they are saying your view is "crazy," then this is being disparaging and dismissive, in my mind. That would be more of a concern to me than the lyric.

Originally Posted by kearnine

The boys say, "It's just a lyric! No one would think we actually say stuff like that!"

I disagree with your boys' statement. No musicians can control how listeners will perceive their lyrics. Some listeners may conclude that the musicians might say such things in real life; other listeners might think they were just being creative in the song, much like actors who portray different characters.

Originally Posted by kearnine

My husband calls the lyric ironic and "funny", which utterly baffles me.

I agree with you. I don't see the lyric as ironic or "funny" at all. It seems sad to me.

Originally Posted by kearnine

All three of them reject my perception about songwriters and performers - that usually, purposely, they are putting forth who they are in their lyrics - their philosophic values, life experience, etc. So, I'm told, it's silly to assume that a person hearing "Ink" might think, "Sheesh, is that what these guys would say to a girl during a break-up?

I think your and their views are both partially right and partially incorrect, Caroline. Musicians sometimes make songs that reflect their values and life experiences, but sometimes they do not.

Since "Ink" has already been created and posted online, it looks like your concerns weren't large enough to prevent its creation, and so I'm thinking that the bigger issue now underneath the lyrics is whether your husband and sons are being respectful of your views as all of you debate this topic. Also, it sounds as if you and your husband are now facing a conflict over whether to continue to support your sons' music if you do not agree on what "positive" songs are.

I feel you all show great caring and concern for each other by discussing this topic and trying to wrangle out your differences within your family. Disagreements are hard, and role-modeling constructive ways of dealing with them will probably end up as being more important than the song itself in your sons' lives.

My personal view on the song is the same as Tore's (above): I don't feel the song's negativity means it is a bad song to have one's children create. I feel the song is one that vents or expresses an emotional state, and although it is not a desirable state, bringing those emotions out in the open and acknowledging them is a first step in practicing how to deal with situations that cause such emotions to arise.

I can understand how you wouldn't want your kids to feel that you in any way support their telling someone, "I'm sick of wasting my time on you." I agree with you. Yet I also feel that allowing kids to express their emotions and creativity is very important. Allowing free speech is an important philosophical value to me, even and especially when what is said isn't what I want to hear.

If you and your husband do agree eventually on what is "positive," and your sons disagree with your assessment, then perhaps you could give your sons the option of using their own earned money to support their music. That would be a middle ground solution if you cannot all agree on the direction you want their music to take.

I hope this helps!

~ Erica

[Janszoon]

I think you need to get a little perspective, kearnine. He's singing about frustration. So what? Being 15 is frustrating, give the kid a break. It's not like he's singing about shooting people.

[Blarobbarg]

I've gotta agree with Tore and Jansz here. Life is not one awesome experience, there are negative things that happen, a lot of times very negative things. Singing about them is a good form of catharsis for many, and if he wants to purge his feelings by singing about them, good for him. I've written a song about my previous addiction. It is not a happy song. And that's okay.

I'm not you so I really have no say in the matter, but I'd loosen the reigns a little bit. He's not singing about shooting up his school, it's just a slightly negative phrase.

Anyway, that's my two cents.

[duga]

The line might be a little negative, but it's hardly anything that warrants some parental action. As has been said above, he is a teenager...teenagers need some form of emotional release. Be happy his is with music and not torturing little animals.

Instead of trying to put restrictions on him, how about talking to him? Making him bottle things up when he could be healthily expressing himself will only make him more negative. Maybe just ask him why he used that line. You might be surprised and happy to find he is willing to open up to you.

[The Batlord]

If this isn't the most complicated form of spam ever, I will be severely disappointed.

[duga]

Yeah, I've been waiting for a response...damn.

[Janszoon]

Originally Posted by duga

Yeah, I've been waiting for a response...damn.

Are you "so sick of wasting time on" this thread?

[Guybrush]

Originally Posted by The Batlord

If this isn't the most complicated form of spam ever, I will be severely disappointed.

I was thinking about this earlier before my reply as well. Guess we'll just have to wait and see!