The American Football Thread

[butthead aka 216]

manipulatin feelin and personality is part of coachin. their job is to get the best out of their players. do you really think philbin just wanted to fukc with martin? of course not, he was tryin to get him to work out at voluntary team workouts and get in gear so he could be the best he could be.

incognito and martin were friends. martins texts show that. other dolphins have said that. the quarterback said that richie was martins best friend on the team. like incognito said, thats how they communicate and talk with each other. its locker room talk and it stays in the locker room. thousands upon thousands of players have been in those locker room conversations. its not a place for someone easily offended.

from what im gatherin its not even so much about rookie hazin per se, more just like the treatment in general. but these are grown men with grown men problems. if ya got a problem, say somethin about it instead of freakin out. maybe martin didnt know how to handle it. he comes from a background that other nfl players probably see as soft and im sure his stanford locker room was a little different than miamis. i dont think we know if he went to incognito but i didnt hear that he did. i also dont think he filed charges or against who he would be filing them against anyways. its a problem martin has, unfortunately incognito is an easy scapegoat due to his history of bein a douche. i just think the whole thing should been kept in-house

and the miami players are takin incognitos side because they are bein honest about it. havent heard a single guy say he was steppin over the line or they saw any signs of a freak out which leads me to believe its more martins emotional or mental problems than anythin else. the miami players have no reason to defend incognito, hes not ever goin to play for them again so theres no incentive for them to protect him or whatever. if anythin, theres more incentive and motivation behind backin martin - somethin nobody has done.


about joepa, he didnt look the other way and theres no reason for anyone in this world to think that had he known all of what was goin on that he would have willingly let it all happen. again, benefit of the doubt, he never gets it. if he wanted to cover it up or whatever why would he immediately tell his superiors what he was told by mcqueary?? that whole scandal makes me sick on multiple fronts

[Forward To Death]

Originally Posted by butthead aka 216

manipulatin feelin and personality is part of coachin. their job is to get the best out of their players. do you really think philbin just wanted to fukc with martin? of course not, he was tryin to get him to work out at voluntary team workouts and get in gear so he could be the best he could be.

Does intent really matter in this situation? I don't care what his intent was, Martin was treated like ****, and Phillbin not only looked the other way, he orchestrated the whole thing. He TOLD Incognito to get him out of his shell, this is documented by players who are now taking Richie's side.

incognito and martin were friends. martins texts show that. other dolphins have said that. the quarterback said that richie was martins best friend on the team. like incognito said, thats how they communicate and talk with each other. its locker room talk and it stays in the locker room. thousands upon thousands of players have been in those locker room conversations. its not a place for someone easily offended.

What do the texts show? Does Martin say "Hey Richie, I just wanted to tell you you're my best friend!!"? D'aaawww, that's sweet, but no they don't.

I don't think you understand it one bit. It's not a case of someone being "offended", it's a case of someone feeling like they were treated like they were less than human. If that's all it was, him taking offense to what Incognito was saying, then why is he suffering mentally? You still can't answer that.

from what im gatherin its not even so much about rookie hazin per se, more just like the treatment in general. but these are grown men with grown men problems. if ya got a problem, say somethin about it instead of freakin out. maybe martin didnt know how to handle it. he comes from a background that other nfl players probably see as soft and im sure his stanford locker room was a little different than miamis. i dont think we know if he went to incognito but i didnt hear that he did. i also dont think he filed charges or against who he would be filing them against anyways. its a problem martin has, unfortunately incognito is an easy scapegoat due to his history of bein a douche. i just think the whole thing should been kept in-house

It obviously isn't Martin's problem if Incognito's a psychopath, is it? These are real people with personalities, and to call one of them soft because he was harassed on a daily basis and felt uncomfortable taking a stand is absolutely ridiculous. It's all a bunch of macho jock bull**** to be honest.

[butthead aka 216]

Originally Posted by Forward To Death

Does intent really matter in this situation? I don't care what his intent was, Martin was treated like ****, and Phillbin not only looked the other way, he orchestrated the whole thing. He TOLD Incognito to get him out of his shell, this is documented by players who are now taking Richie's side.


What do the texts show? Does Martin say "Hey Richie, I just wanted to tell you you're my best friend!!"? D'aaawww, that's sweet, but no they don't.

I don't think you understand it one bit. It's not a case of someone being "offended", it's a case of someone feeling like they were treated like they were less than human. If that's all it was, him taking offense to what Incognito was saying, then why is he suffering mentally? You still can't answer that.


It obviously isn't Martin's problem if Incognito's a psychopath, is it? These are real people with personalities, and to call one of them soft because he was harassed on a daily basis and felt uncomfortable taking a stand is absolutely ridiculous. It's all a bunch of macho jock bull**** to be honest.

umm yeah lol, intent does matter. if i play a prank on one of my buddies and he injures himself, theres a big different between me tryin to maliciously injure him and somethin goin wrong and an injury happenin because of the prank or joke. so not sure what youre gettin at to be honest

and philbin wanted incognito to get martin to practices!! he wanted martin at 'voluntary' practices and told incognito, the leader, to get him there cause he knew he would have a lot of weight in the words he said. all completely standard coaching.

and are you denyin they were friends?? thats what confuses me... apparently you are? even tho all of miami's players said they seemed to be great friends and they were textin back and forth after the incident?? umm ok, how do you figure they werent friends??

and i still cant answer what exactly?? what are you even asking lol?? i mean yea obviously martin is sufferin mentally, you said yourself HE CHECKED HIMSELF INTO A HOSPITAL. if that doesnt scream 'im sufferin mentally' then im not sure what does. its one thing to quit the team or whatever and its another completely to feel its necessary to check into a facility lol. thats a pretty big jump.

i think incognito was really genuine in his interview and im glad he just said whats on his mind and flat out told everyone they dont understand that culture whatsoever, his relationship with martin, or anything really

[Forward To Death]

Originally Posted by butthead aka 216

umm yeah lol, intent does matter. if i play a prank on one of my buddies and he injures himself, theres a big different between me tryin to maliciously injure him and somethin goin wrong and an injury happenin because of the prank or joke. so not sure what youre gettin at to be honest

No it doesn't, he's still injured and he's still a victim. Why doesn't that register with you?

and philbin wanted incognito to get martin to practices!! he wanted martin at 'voluntary' practices and told incognito, the leader, to get him there cause he knew he would have a lot of weight in the words he said. all completely standard coaching.

You enlist the biggest douche on the team to harass him into becoming more of a team player? Still doesn't make any of it right. Although, I must've missed the part about him skipping voluntary practices. Why don't they just make them mandatory so he has to go or he gets kicked off the team? It isn't that hard. I can understand Phillbin's POV at least if that's what he was trying to do, and maybe Martin really isn't social enough to play pro football if that's the case, but it doesn't make anything Incognito did any less wrong.

and are you denyin they were friends?? thats what confuses me... apparently you are? even tho all of miami's players said they seemed to be great friends and they were textin back and forth after the incident?? umm ok, how do you figure they werent friends??

Maybe because he's not with the team and has set the stage for a lawsuit? How do you figure they WERE friends aside from what their teammates say "seemed to be"? I've never seen anything conclusive that says they were definitely friends, more that they were teammates who "seemed" to get along, but often talked **** to each other.

and i still cant answer what exactly?? what are you even asking lol?? i mean yea obviously martin is sufferin mentally, you said yourself HE CHECKED HIMSELF INTO A HOSPITAL. if that doesnt scream 'im sufferin mentally' then im not sure what does. its one thing to quit the team or whatever and its another completely to feel its necessary to check into a facility lol. thats a pretty big jump.

What for though? Why would he be checking into a mental institution. Are you saying it isn't related?

[butthead aka 216]

Originally Posted by Forward To Death

No it doesn't, he's still injured and he's still a victim. Why doesn't that register with you?


You enlist the biggest douche on the team to harass him into becoming more of a team player? Still doesn't make any of it right. Although, I must've missed the part about him skipping voluntary practices. Why don't they just make them mandatory so he has to go or he gets kicked off the team? It isn't that hard. I can understand Phillbin's POV at least if that's what he was trying to do, and maybe Martin really isn't social enough to play pro football if that's the case, but it doesn't make anything Incognito did any less wrong.


Maybe because he's not with the team and has set the stage for a lawsuit? How do you figure they WERE friends aside from what their teammates say "seemed to be"? I've never seen anything conclusive that says they were definitely friends, more that they were teammates who "seemed" to get along, but often talked **** to each other.


What for though? Why would he be checking into a mental institution. Are you saying it isn't related?

why doesn't it register with me? more like why arent you based in reality and lyin right now?? I believe anyones feelins would be change dependin on intent and im sure yours would as well. not sure why theres such denial on your part

the whole philbin angle, from what i understand, was him tryin to get martin to voluntary workouts. they cant be mandatory, i assume because of the colelctive bargaining agreement. but they arent really voluntary and its expected everyone goes.

how do i figure they were friends?? ummmm... because all signs point to that lol. friends usually have a habit of jokin with each other, textin funny pictures to each other, etc. if they werent friends they musta put on one hell of an acting job for everyone else then, eh?

and martin checked into a facility because he knows hes obviously mentally not healthy and unstable right now

[Forward To Death]

Originally Posted by butthead aka 216

why doesn't it register with me? more like why arent you based in reality and lyin right now?? I believe anyones feelins would be change dependin on intent and im sure yours would as well. not sure why theres such denial on your part

Okay so then what happened to the injured party? You're not accountable for your actions because it was "your bad"? It holds about as much water as a paper bag.

the whole philbin angle, from what i understand, was him tryin to get martin to voluntary workouts. they cant be mandatory, i assume because of the colelctive bargaining agreement. but they arent really voluntary and its expected everyone goes.

Then that's something Phillbin needs to handle as head coach. If he can't do that, then why is he leading a team? If it comes out that Martin actually was harassed all of this time, as I suspect it will, he needs to be held accountable for that.

how do i figure they were friends?? ummmm... because all signs point to that lol. friends usually have a habit of jokin with each other, textin funny pictures to each other, etc. if they werent friends they musta put on one hell of an acting job for everyone else then, eh?

Well that's what makes it such a crazy story. How does this happen if they were just friends though?

and martin checked into a facility because he knows hes obviously mentally not healthy and unstable right now

I can't understand why though, if it was over nothing serious. You don't quit your team and sell your buddy's reputation down the river if what happened was as little of a deal as you're making it out to be.

We'll see.

[butthead aka 216]

Originally Posted by Forward To Death

Okay so then what happened to the injured party? You're not accountable for your actions because it was "your bad"? It holds about as much water as a paper bag.


Then that's something Phillbin needs to handle as head coach. If he can't do that, then why is he leading a team? If it comes out that Martin actually was harassed all of this time, as I suspect it will, he needs to be held accountable for that.


Well that's what makes it such a crazy story. How does this happen if they were just friends though?


I can't understand why though, if it was over nothing serious. You don't quit your team and sell your buddy's reputation down the river if what happened was as little of a deal as you're making it out to be.

We'll see.

legally philbin cant handle the voluntary workouts. coaches cant pressure or tell players they must attend so he was tryin to skirt the rules (which everyone does) and get a player to convince martin to show up. this is standard stuff, happens in every locker room i am sure. that was about the time of the voicemail which, like incognito said, looks really bad when its just words on a screen and theres no context of their relationship of how it was said attached to it

of course im accountable if theres an injured party. doesnt change accountability but doesnt make two situations equal either. lets say a friend plays a prank on me and i fall and hurt my arm. take that VS a friend is disgruntled and sets up a trap in hopes i will fall and injure myself. id have different feelins for each scenario and have a real hard time believin youd feel the same either way. i think youre lookin at things in a vacuum or somethin

what i think happened is this: martin already had some issues whether mentally or emotionally. incognito and the rest of the team were fukcin with him as a rookie like every veteran does in every locker room. this yr they kept it up a little bit in the sense of how older brothers pick on little brothers. the team just saw it as everyday stuff that happens with friends and brothers and martin let it build and brew inside of him instead of communicatin how he was really feelin and it all came to a head. kinda like a straw on the camels back forcin him to check into a psych unit or whatever and leave the team. sounds to me like martin didnt let anyone know he was feelin like jokes were goin too far

[Forward To Death]

Originally Posted by butthead aka 216

what i think happened is this: martin already had some issues whether mentally or emotionally. incognito and the rest of the team were fukcin with him as a rookie like every veteran does in every locker room. this yr they kept it up a little bit in the sense of how older brothers pick on little brothers. the team just saw it as everyday stuff that happens with friends and brothers and martin let it build and brew inside of him instead of communicatin how he was really feelin and it all came to a head. kinda like a straw on the camels back forcin him to check into a psych unit or whatever and leave the team. sounds to me like martin didnt let anyone know he was feelin like jokes were goin too far

Well I guess we aren't too far off then.

[butthead aka 216]

Originally Posted by Forward To Death

Well I guess we aren't too far off then.

right, we can both probably agree on the basics of what likely happened. but it seems to me that you want to drive incognito into the ground and take philbin and anyone else attached into the ground as well.

[Plankton]

Detroit lost, Packers are done for the day. It's a good day to be a Bears fan.


Hoping this aint the NHL thread...