TheBig3

I don't even know how we begin to have a conversation if you don't refute a counterpoint.

"Its purely physical!"
"Says who? Here are a few ways they aren't physical"
"But sports are physical!"

/splosions

As for your debasing of the eSport arena, its primarily based on your failure to group them with something that fits the description. Track, Boxing, Bowling, Fishing...they're all sports.

How are they different than eSports?

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GuitarBizarre

I think he's saying that thus far nobody has outright **** on eSports.

Of course, thats bull****. Its hardly overreacting to say that when you make a thread like this over a discussion wherein people tried to delegitimise the concept of eSports, and then someone like Above spends the next few days or weeks periodically making snide jabs at the concept in OTHER threads, then its pretty much read that those people are delegitimising the concept of eSports by trying to mock them.

And thats also entirely corroborated by comments such as

This very clearly dismisses the entire discussion on no logical ground.
This delegitimises the concept of eSports by implying something nobody said, and further implying that people who subscribed to that statement were "lesser" than people who agreed with Pedestrian's view.
This is appeal to ridicule. It seeks to delegitimise eSports by providing absurd examples of non-sports in an effort to undermine my rationale for defining sports the way I do. Ultimately it failed because I remained consistent in my view.
Same here.
Same here.
Another appeal to ridicule, if taken seriously. Pedestrian tells me this was a joke.
This is Il Duce trolling, trying to turn the discussion to another end entirely in order to appease his own awful sense of humour.



So you can easily see that yes, people have been either actively trying to delegitimise, or outright mocking, the concept of eSports from BEFORE the thread even started, and throughout it.


Secondly, there is no definition we have yet found that outright excludes eSports from being considered sports.

Thirdly, this: "The distinction needs to be made, because if it isn't, people lose sight of the balance that is required between the physical and the mental. Both are extremely important for a balanced person, but there's a reason we differentiate between the two."

This is complete bull****. Sports are competitive activities. Thats what they are, 100%. For something to be considered a sport it must be competitive. What you just described does not take that into account, and even putting aside the physical vs skill based sports argument, anyone can see that what you just defined was "Exercise". We have a word for it. Nobody who isn't a ****ing dumbass will be confused by applying "sports" to eSports, because its patently obvious which activities can contribute to which side of the balance for physical and mental activity, and the delineation between the two is NOT the delineation that defines sports, even in a contemporary usage biased towards physically strenuous models.

Practically speaking, by doing this you're defining "sports" as "That which contributes to a healthy physical being", which is completely insane when you realise that implies that a great many forms of NONCOMPETITIVE, and therefore non-sport, activities, fall under that umbrella.

Sports are competitive forms. There is no rationale we have yet been provided with to consider sports as having a bar of physical requirement.

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MoonlitSunshine

Again, I am accused of "debasing" eSports? How, exactly? Because I don't want to associate a mental activity with a physical activity? Track requires large amounts of fitness, as does Boxing, as does fishing at a professional level, and the clarification of "professional level" is really necessary here seeing as it's the lynch pin of the entire reason why eSports should be considered more than just a game. Bowling, on the other hand, I don't consider a sport, not in the traditional sense of the word. Which is really what my entire argument has been based around. The word Sport requires clarification, not random addition.

Pedestrian's comment could probably have done with some elaboration, I will admit, however, again you are taking "not a Sport" to be an insult. As yet, you haven't answered that question. Why is it that you find the concept of eSports not being Sports to be so offensive? Why is it so important to you that they be considered equivalent?

I'm just going to ignore Il Duce, because... well, because. I don't think I can really be faulted there.

As for the others, I find it rather interesting that you are arguing this. I think we can all agree that any "Sport" is a "Game" at an amateur, fundamental level? This includes eSports. They are simply an activity that some people have chosen to do at a professional level. If someone DID feel like taking toothbrushing to a professional level, how would that be different to any other game?

Games in general are relatively pointless (Ludicrous, if you will), so something like toothbrushing which actually has applications of increasing hygiene awareness is far less pointless and more valid an exercise than the vast majority of games. Who are you to say that such pointless activities as eSports should be added to the list of other pointless if physically active activities currently called sports, and that Professional Toothbrushing shouldn't? Noone is trying to **** on eSports, they are simply pointing out that your argument for their inclusion can be extended ab adsurdum.

I note that you didn't respond to Rubato's


Rather than addressing his point about competitive eating, you focused on the second half of his statement. Was this because you had no response? I am simply curious. Everything can be done competitively, and it would be rather simply to make a valid ruleset and structure for Professional Toothbrushing.

Of course there isn't. I've argued this over and over. Why is this? Because Sport is such an old word that noone really agrees on what a Sport entails. "I play sports" used to have a very clear meaning: I spend time training and engaging in physical exercise in order to compete at varying levels in a team or solo game that requires at least a minimal level of fitness and skill. What does it mean now? It's pretty much a placeholder meaning absolutely **** all. If you say "I play sports" these days, people will ask for a clarification, and if you say "darts" or "bowling", lots of people will say "psshhh, that's not a sport", and they think you are claiming to be something you are not - actively exercising. If we had an alternate term that "I play a game professionally" It would completely negate that presumably unintended attempt to portray any game played professionally as a physically exerting activity.

Is it right to assume that that claim is being made? Of course not, but it's unavoidable if people like you insist that the list of sports be added to DESPITE the fact that it already has a confusing definition. All you will do is compound the problem.

I note that you assume that people aren't dumbasses. I hate to disappoint, but that's disregarding a fair portion of the world. I'll also not that YOUR definition of Sport is a competitive activity. Shall we look at some others?

This one doesn't even require that it be competitive, directly in contradiction to your only requirement.

Here's one that disagrees with the first one. I'll note the inclusion of "physical exertion". What defines Physical Exertion? That in itself is debatable. Walking to the fridge is physically exerting for an unfit obese couch potato. Does that make it valid exercise?

Perhaps this might help show why I think added yet more to the list of "Sports" without first deciding on what the definition of a Sport is, is Madness.


Practically speaking, the standard definition of a sport in this country is one which requires fitness and exercise. Because My definition disagrees with yours means mine is wrong? Does it mean you're wrong? Of course not. Again, this is proof that the word is outdated in its current definition and needs redefining.

ONE aspect of sport is the competitiveness, one which I have shown above isn't even universally agreed as a requirement for a "sport". To repeat myself, the simple fact that so many people have disagreed with you shows how varied personal opinion on the definition of sport is. If eSports are to be considered Sports, what would that achieve? Worldwide recognition as a valid pastime? Unlikely. More likely it will just increase the list of sports that people will argue over whether or not they are a sport. If what you want is more ambiguity, then sure, fire away. but if you're looking to actually form a foundation of recognition for a collection of professional pastimes that are currently degraded (in your eyes) by the majority, then this is not the route to do it.

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