The European football thread

[Newkie]

Originally Posted by Fluffy Kittens

Saying that, it won't just be Barça who are at it. It will be all clubs at the top level. Huge greed, huge rewards, no desire of the authorities to expose anyone. Chairmen aren't going to let rival clubs cheat them out of millions of pounds each year. They'll either get it exposed, or join in. And it isn't being exposed.

This greed among the top clubs means the only possible scenarios are all top clubs are clean or all top clubs dope. There can not be only one or 2 clubs doing it for this reason. It's either none, or all of the clubs at the top. Barça would probably be the best club to do this at if they were the only ones but still.

Shit loads of money up for grabs + greedy owners/chairmen with no morals + a distinct lack of interest from footballs authorities in exposing any cheating = ?

This is probably the real competition in football. Who succeeds the best at doping their players and getting match officials and the authorities on side.

If the top clubs are all at it, then no player is going to speak out and ruin their career. A failed player would easily be discredited or destroyed if they spoke out, or easily bribed not to. Some players may not even be aware what the club doctors are giving them, if indeed young developing players are even involved. Maybe it only happens once they have something to lose.

I'm not sure I buy it to be honest. If all the top clubs are at it, why are they suddenly so lethargic when they put on an england shirt?

It's certainly possible and very likely that certain individuals in some of the top leagues do it, but I'm not sure if doping would have as much influence on footie compared with more individual sports i.e sprinting and tennis. I think there is far too much to lose for big clubs and their image to pull any kind of mass/secret drug ring and players come and go all the time, often in bad circumstances, they would definitely let the cat out of the bag. Imo.

[Cuthbert]

Originally Posted by Newkie

I'm not sure I buy it to be honest. If all the top clubs are at it, why are they suddenly so lethargic when they put on an england shirt?

Name me some English players who play great for their clubs but not for England?

Keane pointed this out after we got bummed by Germany.

It's certainly possible and very likely that certain individuals in some of the top leagues do it, but I'm not sure if doping would have as much influence on footie compared with more individual sports i.e sprinting and tennis. I think there is far too much to lose for big clubs and their image to pull any kind of mass/secret drug ring and players come and go all the time, often in bad circumstances, they would definitely let the cat out of the bag. Imo.

As said before, if everyone's at it then one player would easily be silenced. I read an article involving a lower league player:

Having spent long enough watching me being outjumped and outfought by centre-halves in every game, manager Mark McGhee summoned me to his training ground office one day. He was not alone, and had a simple message for me: "We're gonna get really scientific with you."

The man in his office was the newly appointed fitness coach who would take me for individual strength and conditioning sessions each afternoon and I was booked to see a nutritionist the following day. I was tall, scrawny and relatively weak for the position I was occupying in the team. It would no longer be acceptable.

The nutritionist took samples of my hair to examine, and I was told to weigh and record everything I ate for a week. On the basis of both findings, I was given a specific diet of pills and food supplements which would need to be taken every day. Eight pills with breakfast, a different eight with lunch and a further six after dinner. On many days I would replace my regular meal with a sachet of powder which, once added to water, would have all the nutritional benefits I needed. It was the most disciplined regime I ever experienced.

That was what I was told to do and I didn't once question it. If the club gives you something to take, you assume you should take it. The following year, my diet was tweaked slightly. I asked why one set of pills was no longer to be taken. The reply was a little concerning. "Oh yeah, that was on the banned list all along. Didn't realise it. Never mind." Given that players are totally liable for any substance that is found in their system at any time, it was a stroke of good fortune that I wasn't tested that year.

Kolo Toure is facing a decision which will most likely result in a lengthy ban from football on account of something very similar. Though he has yet to publicly speak on the issue, it is believed the banned substance found in his A sample was the result of him taking a slimming pill which belonged to his wife. Many have laughed off the idea that an athlete in full training would use such a pill, but from my experience -- which was over ten years ago now -- the advantages of taking such assistance is obvious. They work, and you play better as a result.

I had never before reached such a level of fitness and strength. My energy levels were at an all-time high, my body-fat percentages an all-time low. There were pills to prepare us for each game, others to give us a boost at half-time, and there were special drinks made up to help us recover. Such was our commitment to the new regime, we even took what were described as 'liver support pills' before our Christmas party that season. Nothing was left to chance. We finished fourth in the first division that year because of it.

Toure's situation is still unclear because of the silence of everyone involved, but the club and his manager have publicly supported him. They will be without him today against Reading in their FA Cup quarter-final, and they can expect to be without him for a lot longer.

His decision to take a substance without the prior consent of the club medical staff was stupid and reckless at best. At its worst, of course, is the possibility that he did so without the permission of his doctor because he knew the substance to be banned. He will never come out and admit as much if it were true, so the slimming pills story may be here to stay.

After one particularly successful afternoon against Crystal Palace, McGhee called me into his office once again. We had won 3-1 at Selhurst Park, and he wanted to speak to me privately. Reflecting on the performance, he had this to say: "Sads, I'm gonna ask you this: Are you taking something you shouldn't be?" I didn't know exactly what kind of substance to which he was referring but I told him straight out that I wasn't.

Little did we both know at the time that I actually was.

The drugs do work and that's why players can't say no - Independent.ie

If it was happening at Millwall over 10 years ago, I think it's safe to assume things have moved on since, especially at bigger clubs.

Thing is though single players would be incriminating themselves and they would absolutely destroy their own reputation if they spilled the beans and they'd be pissing on their very own achievements and legacy, and they'd be ostracised by pretty much everyone, and what if it's not officially carried out by the club, could be a case of everyone including the club knows it goes on, but no one speaks openly about it to each other. So the only way you'd know it goes on is if you're in on it too.

You've really got to ask why Spain are destroying evidence. The Spanish national team, Barça and Madrid have all employed and admitted paying Fuentes for his services. His service is doping and performance enhancing drugs. He was paid for his services.

Maybe they were just paying him to come round and do some tiling in their bathrooms or perhaps a rewiring of the house. Because obviously they were going to employ someone to not actually do their job aren't they?

You've only got to look at the Italian league to see widespread corruption goes on.

[Newkie]

Originally Posted by Fluffy Kittens

Name me some English players who play great for their clubs but not for England?

Keane pointed this out after we got bummed by Germany.

Why bother, it's probably easier to list those that have shown form comparatively to their club performances for an extended time....so, Ashley Cole. Oh, maybe Peter Crouch? I'm not even talking about playing great, just making a ten yard pass would be nice.

Keane is a gob****e and was a piss poor manager so I tend to take anything he says with a pinch of salt.

Originally Posted by Fluffy Kittens

As said before, if everyone's at it then one player would easily be silenced. I read an article involving a lower league player:



The drugs do work and that's why players can't say no - Independent.ie

If it was happening at Millwall over 10 years ago, I think it's safe to assume things have moved on since, especially at bigger clubs.

Thing is though single players would be incriminating themselves and they would absolutely destroy their own reputation if they spilled the beans and they'd be pissing on their very own achievements and legacy, and they'd be ostracised by pretty much everyone, and what if it's not officially carried out by the club, could be a case of everyone including the club knows it goes on, but no one speaks openly about it to each other. So the only way you'd know it goes on is if you're in on it too.

You've really got to ask why Spain are destroying evidence. The Spanish national team, Barça and Madrid have all employed and admitted paying Fuentes for his services. His service is doping and performance enhancing drugs. He was paid for his services.

Maybe they were just paying him to come round and do some tiling in their bathrooms or perhaps a rewiring of the house. Because obviously they were going to employ someone to not actually do their job aren't they?

You've only got to look at the Italian league to see widespread corruption goes on.

But sportsmen do come forward and give said evidence, as they are in Fuentes' case...Honestly I feel with all the egos and the sizes of the squad involved in football, if it went on at a whole club level then the beans would be spilled.

I'm not so sure players would be ostracised for it either tbh, these are people who can be proven racists, adulterers, homophobes and drug users but are still loved and still would be loved by sections of the public. If they came out and admitted it I hardly see the press tearing them apart.

I believe players do it, but I don't believe Spain or Barca won their titles because of doping.

[Cuthbert]

The living legend is back

2-0 Barça, Messi scores the 2nd after 11 minutes.

[Cuthbert]

Originally Posted by Christian Benteke

Don't make me start posting gifs of his blunders. I am sick of the media building him up to be world class. He is not.

2 blunders already this season and we are only 3 games in (one for England.)

World class Joe Hart flapping about like a pigeon with a broken wing. Even City fans are saying it:

Time to drop Hart, the word is out on him.

not sure about Hart today

Hart needs to be dropped - too many mistakes for a supposed top GK.

Hart's kicking and distribution is woeful.

We need a another quality keeper to come in, Joe's form has been poor for the last 12 months (City and England). He needs competition that can threaten his position and he's coasting on the fact that he's 'Number 1'

Interesting to note that Mancini had already made the call on shipping Hart out had he kept his job.

the whole defence and goalkeeper is an issue at the moment and we a GK, Hart is 'coasting' thinking he is untouchable

http://forums.bluemoon-mcfc.co.uk/vi...p?f=1&t=289593

#butterfingers #theflailingsquid #itchyscalpmylord

[Cuthbert]

- The draw for this year's group stages is made at 4:45pm British time.

In the rehearsal Champions League draw, Manchester United apparently drew Marseille, Dortmund & Real Sociedad. Will post the groups as soon as they've been announced.

- Quotes in El Confidencial claiming Barça have created a 'tyrant' with Leo Messi, the following is a translation from a journalist on Twatter:

Messi to Tello: 'What are u doing? You're new, you're nobody, so pass me the ball, because you're here to play for me.'' Messi's brought Tello to tears with his insults,who's been hurt with how teammates just ignore & accept behaviour as normal says the story.

- Messi to Alexis: 'Seeing how bad you are, I don't know how u cost so much. You don't score enough, so pass me the ball.'

These (unsubstantiated) Messi quotes aren't just out of the blue;stories of a little training ground monster have been filtering out for years

And the worst part is, these seeds were planted by Pep, who created 'Messidependencia doctrine': ''We just have to make Messi happy.''

Guillem Balague said this in Pep Guardiola's biography: During the 09-10 season, when Ibra received the plaudits during his first few months at the club, Messi spoke with Pep and said either he played as a number nine or he didn't play at all. 'And what am I supposed to do with Ibrahimovic?' said Pep. Messi was adamant: 'I play here, or I don't play at all; stick the others out on the wings.'

It's believable that he would be a little prick, I sort of sensed it when he didn't even vote for Ronaldo in his top 3 in the Ballon d'Or last year (Ronnie voted for Messi) so I can see something like this happening but those quotes seem way over the top and too far fetched.

If it did happen and it brought Tello to tears then Tello is a wet flannel.

- Groups are:

Group A: Manchester United, Shakhtar Donetsk, Bayer Leverkusen, Real Sociedad

Group B: Real Madrid, Juventus, Galatasaray, Copenhagen

Group C: Benfica, Paris St-Germain, Olympiakos, Anderlecht

Group D: Bayern Munich, CSKA Moscow, Manchester City, Viktoria Plzen

Group E: Chelsea, Schalke, Basel, Steaua Bucharest

Group F: Arsenal, Marseille, Borussia Dortmund, Napoli

Group G: Porto, Atletico Madrid, Zenit St Petersburg, Austria Vienna

Group H: Barcelona, AC Milan, Ajax, Celtic

Arsenal's group - michaeljacksonpopcorn.gif

[Cuthbert]

Really, really enjoyed that .

[Goofle]

Aaron Ramsey has been probably the best box to box player in the World this season. Sensational player.

[Cuthbert]

We are only 7 games in mate. What a start from him though.

Also one of Ronaldo's goals from Tuesday night:



Then Messi goes and gets a hat-trick, does this last night:



There hasn't been anything like the Messi v Ronaldo show before. It's almost like the results are not in question it's just a matter of who can outscore the other.

[Goofle]

Yeah, and in those games he's been the best. Top quality since January in fact.