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Old 05-20-2017, 09:02 PM   #11 (permalink)
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i'll always love wayner because he's been a pivotal part of the club ever since i've been a fan, but he's a total goofball and i can't think of another big name player who manages to embarrass himself on the pitch that much.

the last few seasons have been especially hard to watch because the great performances are becoming few and far between and the bad ones are rather consistent.
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Old 05-20-2017, 09:15 PM   #12 (permalink)
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i'll always love wayner because he's been a pivotal part of the club ever since i've been a fan, but he's a total goofball and i can't think of another big name player who manages to embarrass himself on the pitch that much.

the last few seasons have been especially hard to watch because the great performances are becoming few and far between and the bad ones are rather consistent.
Post Euros (2004), many (myself included) believed he would go on to be one of the all time greats. He was arguably better than Messi and Cristiano at the time

Fair enough Messi is Messi but if he had the same work ethic as Cristiano who knows where he would be now.
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Old 05-21-2017, 04:59 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Pele is definitely Top 5. Until a new era emerges with a player or two as good as Messi/C. Ron, it's hard to argue that anybody who has been playing in between really deserves a spot ahead of Pele.

Maradona and Cruyff are probably the fourth and fifth placed players, who would be kicked out before Pele imo.

Messi
C. Ron
Pele
Maradona
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Old 05-21-2017, 06:51 AM   #14 (permalink)
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How come Germany has so much success but not so many super famous names?
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Old 05-21-2017, 07:06 AM   #15 (permalink)
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They do have famous names but they don't usually produce the type of players that stand out aesthetically. It takes a particular vibe to cross beyond simply respect in terms of ability and being remembered as a uniquely brilliant player. Pele wouldn't be as famous or looked upon as such a great player if the majority of his ability was to score tap ins. He was so much more, and as if transported from the future.

Gerd Muller is one of the top scoring strikers of all time, but the guy scored ugly goals and wasn't super pleasing on the eye - compared to the Brazilian Ronaldo for example.

Or Matthaus. An awesome midfielder who could do it all, but just didn't have the generation defining ability of Cryuff or Zidane.
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Old 05-21-2017, 07:18 AM   #16 (permalink)
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The only one I ever knew was Schumacher.
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Old 05-21-2017, 08:55 AM   #17 (permalink)
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They do have famous names but they don't usually produce the type of players that stand out aesthetically. It takes a particular vibe to cross beyond simply respect in terms of ability and being remembered as a uniquely brilliant player. Pele wouldn't be as famous or looked upon as such a great player if the majority of his ability was to score tap ins. He was so much more, and as if transported from the future.

Gerd Muller is one of the top scoring strikers of all time, but the guy scored ugly goals and wasn't super pleasing on the eye - compared to the Brazilian Ronaldo for example.

Or Matthaus. An awesome midfielder who could do it all, but just didn't have the generation defining ability of Cryuff or Zidane.
great post. very accurate as well.
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Old 05-21-2017, 12:21 PM   #18 (permalink)
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What arguments are there for Pele? Three World Cups and 1,000 goals aren't really convincing. You should look into who he scored all his goals against.

I would have Romario, Ronaldo, Puskas, Eusebio, Cryuff at least before Pele.
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Old 05-21-2017, 12:28 PM   #19 (permalink)
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I thought winning the World Cup was a big deal and ****. Nevermind.
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Old 05-21-2017, 12:34 PM   #20 (permalink)
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I thought winning the World Cup was a big deal and ****. Nevermind.
It is. But it's a team honour not an individual one.

He was part of a team that won three, but he was injured for their second win (that shows you how good Brazil were) and wasn't really the star player in either of the other two.
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