So is there any way I can tell which scales I could use over a certain progression
?

All of them. Literally. Just make sure the scale is in the key.

Well I knew that. What I meant was how can I tell Which scales that are in keys different from the progression will work over the progression? For example, that last progression i posted is in the key of C, but an Am scale works over it

Look up a circle of 5ths. You'll be able to see that each key has a relative key. That's not the same thing as knowing what to use where though. You should look up how modes work, they're far more comprehensive. Guthrie Govan does a good modes lesson on youtube.

Learn your major and minor pentatonic and blues scale like the back of your hand though before learning modes. Then you will understand what makes each mode different from your basic everyday scale your used to hearing.

Well I know the Am blues scale like the back of my hand, but my scale book only gives examples of scales in the key of A. And I've been without Internet for a while, I've been posting from my phone. It sucks trying to look up scale charts on a phone.

They are the same in every key. All are movable.

You need to know all five scale positions. Are you talking about all of them or just the first?

I know all 5 positions of the Am blues scale. It was the first scale I learned and is my most used. I know they're all movable but the finger patterns aren't the same for each position, so I don't really know how to move them. I know I could take the Am 5th fret position and move it down a whole step to G, but I would it still be the same fingering? It might hard to understand what I mean by "fingering" and "finger position".

Yes the fingering is the exact same. Say you are going to play in Bminor instead, all you do is take every position and shape you know from the Am and move it up the neck 2 frets. The other 4 boxes are the exact same. The only thing that may be tricky is getting used to playing in Eminor since the first position is all barred at the nut.

So little did you know you actually know every minor Keys pentatonic scales already!

So position one of the Am blues scale starts at the 3rd fret on the G note, I can move that box down a whole step and that is Bm? So then the Bm pentatonic starts at the 5th fret. That seems like a far start for a scale, there's got to be a box before the 5th fret box. It just doesn't seem right that all the notes before the 5th fret would be skipped.

No the 1st postition of Am scale is at the fifth fret. Think about it, its an Am scale so the first root note has to be an A.

http://www.guitarcommand.com/wp-cont...ams-guitar.gif

The one marked R is the root which is the same note as the key you are in. So if you want to play in Bm you go down to the 7th fret because that note of the low E string is a B. I think first you should learn all your notes on the low e and a string before tackling this.

The first position of the scale always starts on the note the scale is named after on the 6th string (fattest).

I've looked at multiple scale charts and theyve always told me the first note of the Am blues scale is on the 3rd fret (G). I know all my notes on the low E very well. I'm Past that. Yes the root is on the A, but it starts on the G. I'm not saying you're wrong, I understand what you're saying; but my scale book shows it as this:


----------------------------------------------3-5-------
-------------------------------------3-4-5------------
---------------------------2-----4-------------------
------------------2----4-----------------------
---------3---5--------------------------
--3---5----------------------------

The roots being on the 5th of the low E and the 2nd of the G.

Thats not the first position. The first position of the Am pentatonic scale is

----------------------------------------------5-8-------
-------------------------------------5-8-------------
---------------------------5-----7-------------------
------------------5----7-----------------------
---------5---7--------------------------
--5---8----------------------------

If you look at the chart above, you'll see you're playing the shape listed for the SECOND position. Its still an Am scale, but that is NOT the first position, which is WHY the root note is not the first note.

That's not root position, that's the second position. "A" is always the root if you're playing in Am. But those tabs are weird. I played it on my guitar and the lower octave is a pentatonic scale while the higher octave seems to be a blues scale of sorts.

edit: Ahhhh GB beat me to it.

Burning down is right about one thing though - The scale you're playing isn't a pentatonic after the first octave. that 345 pattern in there is a different scale.

Think about it, a pentatonic scale is PENT-atonic. Pent meaning five, like pentagon.

If you look at the second octave of your scale, there are six notes. Thats not right for a pentatonic. You're adding in that Eb for some reason, which is what would happen in a blues pentatonic, not a traditional pentatonic.

Yeah I couldn't really put my finger on it... it sounded very bluesy at the end. I even tried it on the piano in all five positions (or inversions as they are called on piano), same result.

Its because the blues relies on fluid intervals, quartertones etc. So to approximate that on instruments that can't bend, you get the "blue notes" where you make a run fluid by adding in a semitone that isn't in the original scale.

TO make it simple, The sixth string root note is ALWAYS the beginning of the first position of the scale.

It's the first position in the sense that if you start at the top of the guitar, its the first position you're going to come up on. That's what I meant.

I guess I dont know what you mean. I cant make it any more simple. It doesnt matter where you are on the guitar.... The first position ALWAYS starts at the root note on the 6th string.

Em first position can be open or or 12th fret. Both are E notes on the 6th string. A Gm woud be the 3rd fret or the 15th fret since they are both ROOT NOTES (G's) on the lowest string.

I cant really explain it any clearer.

So again this picture is explaining it for Am.

http://www.coniferguitar.com/Scales_...ll_notes_1.png

Yes yes yes I get it. Ive had it. what I'm saying is I referred to it as the first position because it's closest to the first fret, which is the first position on the guitar, besides an open string. I understand that it's technically not the first position

Which resulted in confusion. If you know the proper terms, use them in future. Music theory is confusing enough without renaming things arbitrarily.

I didn't know the proper term until y'all said something but I get it now. I was just explaining why I referred to it as the first position.

Im sorry not good enough. Pull your pants down its time to be spanked.


1. Slappp

2. Whapppp

3. Brrrapppp

4. You have been good so 3 is enough.

Good man.

Let me tuck my boner first.

Must be one of those Shame boners.

Just like a dog tucks it's tail between its legs.

blastingas10 -

As for having two chord progressions in one piece... did you ever consider that that the piece might, you know, MODULATE during different sections?

And yes, guitarists and most other musicians (maybe not a triangle / cowbell player, for example) have things called "first position" and "second position". They're very particular about these names. If you don't know a name for something, you're better off saying "the one that goes like this" and give a long-ass explanation of it rather than trying to name it something that means something short and 'obvious' to you.

There may be rhyme and reason behind why these patterns are called these names and in these orders, but they may not. Either way, it's standardized to a point where educated people use them to reference in discussion, practice, and teaching.

And also, you make it blatantly obvious on that one quote of "I can play a minor in C and it sounds fine" that you're new to music (at least theory). These two scales have the same pitches - C D E F G A B C or A B C D E F G. The only difference is what you'd call each note as far as numbers in reference to the scale you are playing. But yes, both would work.

Other scales that'd work just as easily -

C Ionian - C D E F G A B C (just like C Major)
D Dorian - D E F G A B C D
E Phrygian - E F G A B C D E
F Lydian - F G A B C D E F
G Mixolydian - G A B C D E F G
A Aeolian - A B C D E F G A (just like a minor)
B Locrian - B C D E F G A B

And not to mention the pentatonic scales -

C D E G A C
D E G A C D
E G A C D E
G A C D E G
A C D E G A

F G A C D F
G A C D F G
A C D F G A
C D F G A C
D F G A C D

Notice that these scales all share one important quality - 0 sharps; 0 flats.

Just like your wonderfully precious C Major. And yes, this whole concept will relate to other keys too. So have fun and frolic, learned bastingas10.

Well I'm not that new to music but I am pretty new to theory. I'm sorry if I offended anyone by referring to position 2 as position 1, that's just what I understood it to be and what made sense to me.

I am offended. In fact Im downright PISSED. GODDDDD!!!

I might as well have slapped you all in the face.

Why? You asked some questions and we answered them.

:laughing: I was just kidding about how I referred to the second position as the first, comparing it to slapping you all in the face, as if it was as bad of a thing to do.

:laughing: Okay I obviously missed the whole context!

Hello! So I sort of am trying my hand at songwriting, and was wondering if someone could explain something to me. I know how to create a basic melody, but I dont think I exactly explain counter melodies. Is it just a different progression in the key ? Or do they have guidelines? Sorry if I sound like an idiot haha...

From Wikipedia:

"In music, counter-melody (often countermelody) is a sequence of notes, perceived as a melody, written to be played simultaneously with a more prominent lead melody. Typically a counter-melody performs a subordinate role"



Simply put what this means is that countermelody is a line of melody that is played along with some sort of main phrase, and serves to emphasise it rather than overshadowing it.

Listen to this:

Jeff Wayne war of the worlds - eve of the war - YouTube

You can hear the synth plays the main melody. UNDERNEATH that you can hear strings playing a long descending run, then those strings come BACK up in pitch, and play a melody slightly different to the synth line, that complements the synth line without being the main focus of attention.

That is counter melody. To my knowledge there isn't a theoretical method to working with it apart from the same theory you would use to create the first melody. Its just layering it so that it works with itself.

Look up something called Counterpoint. It's a study and a method of writing a contrasting melody. There are rules and regulations that produce pleasing results when followed. There are rights and wrongs, and though you may break the rules to your own liking (cuz it's your music, right?), there're a lot of good sets of skills to be learned through this subject matter.

Cheers.

I have a question.

Is there any limit to chord patterns?

For example, the common progression I, IV, V. Are there any rules to which chords you can combine? Or can you randomly just pick a pattern like I, IV, VI, II, etc?

Good question man. I'll give you three versions of progressions, and then an overall summary.

I. Standard
http://www.electricchili.com/wp-cont....-20-08.47.jpg

This is a fav pic of mine. This gives a roadmap of possibilities for 'normal' progressions, with a little bit of personal option allowed.
The * means that the I chord can go to anything.

II. The Circle
Another way is by the circle of 5ths progression - I V ii iv iii viii* IV I, or the other way with I IV vii* iii iv ii V I.

III. Contemporary
The third is a more contemporary form with chords called Chromatic Mediants.

Chromatic mediants are two chords of the same quality (both Major or both minor for example).
The roots of the chords must be related by a distance of a minor third or a Major third, up or down.
Here's an example:

A Major can go to-
- F# Major - a minor third down.
- F Major - a Major third down.
- C Major - a minor third up.
- C# Major - a Major third up.

Enharmonic spellings are fine (A major can go to Db Major, for example).

If you do a chromatic mediant, but change the quality of the chords, (A major to c minor for example), it's called a 'doubly chromatic mediant'.

IV. Summary
Finally, it doesn't really matter WHAT you do. Music is what you want it to be. Make up your own system, lest you'll sound like everyone else. These progressions I've mentioned are popular for two reasons - they sound good, and they're used very very very often. If you do something new that sounds good TO YOU, then run with it. And then other people will be tuning their ears to your sounds and dig 'em too.

Something of a theory question -

How do I take an approach to sight reading and intuitive understanding of traditional scores, without it being a terrible chore? As a guitarist, traditional notation is all-but uneccessary, but I intend on picking up saxophone at some time in future, and I already own a (terrible) violin.

How do I make sight reading interesting and fun to learn?