Hip Hop Poll: Round 2, Poll D

[pourmeanother]

This one is close. In terms of their individual work, it is basically a draw for me. In terms of outside work, though, I'll take contributions to Madvillain, Lootpack, YNQ, Talib Kweli (Liberation & Eardrum), Jaylib, Mos Def (borrowed from BK: In India), Strong Arm Steady over John Legend and Jimmie Fallon.

[Janszoon]

Originally Posted by Abearmauledme

When you compare The Roots and Madlib, you have to take into account that most of what you hear when you are listening to The Roots is live. Madlib on the other hand primarily samples. So as far as technical ability goes, The Roots win by a long shot. It takes far longer to get good on an instrument than it does to learn how to produce, and whether production is quality or not is subjective. I like Madlib waaaaaay more than the Roots, but when it comes to raw talent, you have to admit the roots win.

You do know Madlib is a multi-instrumentalist, right? The dude plays everything on his Yesterday's New Quintet albums. I'm confused as to why you think it takes so much less ability to produce, DJ, rap and play several instruments all by yourself than it does to just play a single instrument in a band.

Originally Posted by Abearmauledme

Definitely not. 90% of the time, black thought is far ahead of Madlib lyrically. Just because he has a weird voice doesn't mean he's good at rapping (the Unseen is the only album of his that I've actually enjoyed his verses on). He certainly isn't a better rapper, but Madlib is more creative and more fun to listen to.

Again, I'm not talking about lyrics, I'm talking about rapping. As you said, he's more creative and more fun to listen to, that's why I say he's better.

[Janszoon]

Originally Posted by matious

No, you already know i agree with him being better overall. Saying he is a better rapper is blasphemous

Why is it blasphemous?

[Phantom Limb]

Originally Posted by Janszoon

You do know Madlib is a multi-instrumentalist, right? The dude plays everything on his Yesterday's New Quintet albums. I'm confused as to why you think it takes so much less ability to produce, DJ, rap and play several instruments all by yourself than it does to just play a single instrument in a band.

I'm sure that most of the members of The Roots are multi-instrumentalists too, shiiite, I'm a multi-instrumentalist myself. The point is, The Roots are masters of their instruments. Sure Madlib did one album where he played live equipment, but i am sure that he is nowhere near as proficient as the roots are (who have put out like 30 albums). I see Madlib mainly as a producer. There is a certain point where you can no longer say that someones production is bad or good, just whether you enjoy it or not. The same is not true for instrumental musicians. Remember, i am talking about technical ability only. Madlib is more CREATIVE. When he makes a beat, he is patching samples together to form a collage of sound. This takes considerably less TECHNICAL SKILL.

[Janszoon]

Originally Posted by Abearmauledme

I'm sure that most of the members of The Roots are multi-instrumentalists too, shiiite, I'm a multi-instrumentalist myself. The point is, The Roots are masters of their instruments. Sure Madlib did one album where he played live equipment, but i am sure that he is nowhere near as proficient as the roots are (who have put out like 30 albums). I see Madlib mainly as a producer. There is a certain point where you can no longer say that someones production is bad or good, just whether you enjoy it or not. The same is not true for instrumental musicians. Remember, i am talking about technical ability only. Madlib is more CREATIVE. When he makes a beat, he is patching samples together to form a collage of sound. This takes considerably less TECHNICAL SKILL.

First things first, The Roots have released ten albums, not thirty. Madlib is the one who has released a ton of albums, many more than The Roots have. And he didn't do "one album where he played live equipment", he plays live instruments quite a bit. So what makes you so sure he's less proficient than The Roots? It certainly doesn't sound that way when you listen to his music. Lastly, what makes you think building entire songs out samples takes less technical skill than playing a single instrument in a band?

[Phantom Limb]

Originally Posted by Janszoon

First things first, The Roots have released ten albums, not thirty.

Well, if you wanna nit pick...

Originally Posted by Janszoon

Madlib is the one who has released a ton of albums, many more than The Roots have.

I'm confused, "a ton" is not a numerical value? Did you mean 40? because Madlib has put out 40 albums.

Originally Posted by Janszoon

And he didn't do "one album where he played live equipment", he plays live instruments quite a bit.

If this is true, I'm sure you won't have any trouble finding numerous examples.

Originally Posted by Janszoon

So what makes you so sure he's less proficient than The Roots?

Let's just put it like this, would you expect an individual who spends most of his professional time behind the boards to be better at playing live instruments than a group who's entire discography is compromised of songs created with live instruments? What makes you think he's so much more proficient than the Roots?

Originally Posted by Janszoon

It certainly doesn't sound that way when you listen to his music.

Because he samples.

Originally Posted by Janszoon

Lastly, what makes you think building entire songs out samples takes less technical skill than playing a single instrument in a band?

Experience. Playing in a band requires much more technical skill. Producing requires greater creative skill.

[anticipation]

Full Albums:
Angles Without Edges
Stevie
A Tribute to Brother Weldon
The Funky Side of Life
Yesterdays Universe
Miles Away
Slave Riot
Space & Time

EP's
Elle's Theme
Uno Esta
Experience
Say Ah!
Ugly Beauty
Jewelz

I'd say that's quite an impressive catalogue for someone who walked into a music store, bought one of every instrument, and then sat in his house and played until he became proficient enough to make cohesive albums. All of this while still churning out brilliant albums for Stones Throw at a rate that hasn't been seen since Sun Ra.

[Phantom Limb]

Hahahaha good ****. You got me. Even so, I stand by my argument.
PS Which of these albums are the best?

[Janszoon]

Originally Posted by Abearmauledme

Well, if you wanna nit pick...

I'm confused, "a ton" is not a numerical value? Did you mean 40? because Madlib has put out 40 albums.

I'm unclear on the point of this comment.

Originally Posted by Abearmauledme

If this is true, I'm sure you won't have any trouble finding numerous examples.

See anticipation's list.

Originally Posted by Abearmauledme

Let's just put it like this, would you expect an individual who spends most of his professional time behind the boards to be better at playing live instruments than a group who's entire discography is compromised of songs created with live instruments?

Based on anticipation's list it looks like he's actually released more albums with live instruments than The Roots have.

Originally Posted by Abearmauledme

What makes you think he's so much more proficient than the Roots?

I don't think I've ever claimed that he was. All I've done is disagree with your contention that The Roots are way more proficient than he is.

Originally Posted by Abearmauledme

Because he samples.

He sometimes samples and sometimes plays live instruments.

Originally Posted by Abearmauledme

Experience. Playing in a band requires much more technical skill. Producing requires greater creative skill.

So soloists are less technically skilled than people in bands? That seems like a strange claim.

I'm unclear on why we're even on the technical skill tip anyway. The point I'm making is that Madlib is more talented and makes better music than The Roots.

[Charlemagne]

I picked Madlib, pretty easy choice really.