The French Massacre - Do We Stand Up For Free Speech?

~~John Wilkes Booth~~ · 01-09-2015, 08:16 PM

lol, i really doubt that's what's being said in muslim countries. you have to remember that the whole "freedom of speech" thing isn't a universal value, it's a recent western invention.

Oriphiel · 01-09-2015, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Wilkes Booth

lol, i really doubt that's what's being said in muslim countries. you have to remember that the whole "freedom of speech" thing isn't a universal value, it's a recent western invention.

Yeah, screw all that "Ancient Greece" stuff. America forever!

~~John Wilkes Booth~~ · 01-09-2015, 08:20 PM

what are you on about?

Josef K · 01-09-2015, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pet_Sounds

Agreed, and I think the hypothetical reaction you described is probably what's being said in most Muslim countries.

The hypothetical reaction I described is (a very quick summary of) my reaction to the real thing. I don't think the actions of the hypothetical Muslims are as bad, to be honest.

Oriphiel · 01-09-2015, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Wilkes Booth

what are you on about?

The ideas of "Freedom of Speech" and "Democracy"? Ancient Greece? Not ringing any bells? It was also a central part of life and law within ancient Rome (during the Republic period, anyway. Afterwards, it depended on the emperor). Couldn't go five steps without walking into a forum.

~~John Wilkes Booth~~ · 01-09-2015, 08:53 PM

democracy flourished in athens for a very short time... as for guaranteed free speech for the populous i'm really not sure that they ever made a point of it. maybe you know more about it than i do but i've never heard that. i'd like some historical sources if you have them.

like the roman republic for instance... saying the wrong thing there could get you killed from what i've read. yea rich landowners had some right to voice their opinion in that establishment sure. but that's not really on the level of what i'm talking about. i mean i'm sure the idea of free speech goes way back but i'm talking about putting it to practice. even the united states didn't respect free speech during the first world war. people talked about it for a long time before we ever really saw any results.

**Scarlett O'Hara** · 01-09-2015, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oriphiel

I'll be brief; I don't support violence. A person can walk down a street wearing whatever shirt they want, they don't deserve to be killed.

Or raped. There is a massive undercurrent of victim blaming in this world.

Neapolitan · 01-10-2015, 02:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart

If any religion deserves to be mocked it's Christianity.

It's like a punchline to bad joke. Two muslims walk in a bar after reading Charlie Habdo and kill 12 people and the punchline is that if any religion deserves to be mocked it's Christianity. Honestly I don't know why when speaking about two men going on a killing spree the conclusion is Christianity should deserve more mockery.

Before Being Killed, Children Told ISIS:

Where are the #Je suis Iraqi Christian or #Je suis Pakistani student?

~~John Wilkes Booth~~ · 01-10-2015, 02:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neapolitan

It's like a punchline to bad joke. Two muslims walk in a bar after reading Charlie Habdo and kill 12 people and the punchline is that if any religion deserves to be mocked it's Christianity. Honestly I don't know why when speaking about two men going on a killing spree the conclusion is Christianity should deserve more mockery.

Before Being Killed, Children Told ISIS:

Where are the #Je suis Iraqi Christian or #Je suis Pakistani student?

i think it's just that people are more comfortable with mocking christianity than they are islam. people feel safe mocking christianity because a) it can't be misconstrued as racist and b) christians most likely aren't going to go into fatwa mode over a stupid joke.

Oriphiel · 01-10-2015, 05:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vanilla

Or raped. There is a massive undercurrent of victim blaming in this world.

Believe me, I know. I just wrote all of this in response to Batlord:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oriphiel

I took a few criminal justice classes in college, and we touched on the subject fairly often. Most rapes are committed by people who personally know the victim, and often take place in a familiar setting such as a house or apartment. And beyond that, it's also often more about psychological dominance than it is about sex, meaning that someone with the mindset of a rapist often doesn't care about the clothes you wear. So characterizing it as some spur-of-the-moment thing that generic thugs do at night is not even broadly accurate. Wearing revealing clothing doesn't magically make the men around you into a rapist; if someone rapes you, it's not your fault. It's not because of something you did. It's because the rapist needed a victim, and when someone with that kind of mentality looks for a victim, they would have found one even if you hadn't been there.

01-09-2015, 08:53 PM	#186 (permalink)
~~John Wilkes Booth~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 2,235	democracy flourished in athens for a very short time... as for guaranteed free speech for the populous i'm really not sure that they ever made a point of it. maybe you know more about it than i do but i've never heard that. i'd like some historical sources if you have them. like the roman republic for instance... saying the wrong thing there could get you killed from what i've read. yea rich landowners had some right to voice their opinion in that establishment sure. but that's not really on the level of what i'm talking about. i mean i'm sure the idea of free speech goes way back but i'm talking about putting it to practice. even the united states didn't respect free speech during the first world war. people talked about it for a long time before we ever really saw any results. Last edited by John Wilkes Booth; 01-09-2015 at 09:03 PM.

01-09-2015, 08:16 PM	#181 (permalink)
~~John Wilkes Booth~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 2,235	lol, i really doubt that's what's being said in muslim countries. you have to remember that the whole "freedom of speech" thing isn't a universal value, it's a recent western invention.

01-09-2015, 08:20 PM	#183 (permalink)
~~John Wilkes Booth~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 2,235	what are you on about?