What Are You Listening To Right Now? II

**Janszoon** · 02-21-2012, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Engine

^Every time I hear that song I'm a little amazed by how such a big radio/video hit got away with saying 'faggot' so much.

It was 1985. By a similar token, I'm always amazed by the prevalence of both "fag" and "faggot" in a wide range of 80s teen movies from The Breakfast Club to Bill & Ted's Excellent Aventure.

Engine · 02-21-2012, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

It was 1985. By a similar token, I'm always amazed by the prevalence of both "fag" and "faggot" in a wide range of 80s teen movies from The Breakfast Club to Bill & Ted's Excellent Aventure.

True. Goes to show you how mainstream society was scared to death of AIDS and were ready and willing to blame the disease on gay men at the time. As a little kid I remember the word being so common that it wasn't any worse than calling somebody a "shithead" or something on the playground. In fact it was more acceptable because "faggot" didn't even count as a swear.

**Janszoon** · 02-21-2012, 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Engine

True. Goes to show you how mainstream society was scared to death of AIDS and were ready and willing to blame the disease on gay men at the time. As a little kid I remember the word being so common that it wasn't any worse than calling somebody a "shithead" or something on the playground. In fact it was more acceptable because "faggot" didn't even count as a swear.

I've always thought of it as general homophobia but I think you're right about the connection to AIDS fearmongering. It doesn't seem like those words were nearly as common in mass media in the previous decades.

skaltezon · 02-22-2012, 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Engine

^Every time I hear that song I'm a little amazed by how such a big radio/video hit got away with saying 'faggot' so much.

In this context 'faggot' doesn't mean 'homosexual'. To the sweat-laborer characters singing the song,
it means a prettyboy rock star who seems to get everything the easy way.

In another context, Urban Dictionary says, 'In these times not used if somebody is really a homosexual,
but rather someone who is stupid or a loser'. http://www.urbandictionary.com

**Goofle** · 02-22-2012, 06:19 AM

**Janszoon** · 02-22-2012, 06:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skaltezon

In this context 'faggot' doesn't mean 'homosexual'. To the sweat-laborer characters singing the song,
it means a prettyboy rock star who seems to get everything the easy way.

In another context, Urban Dictionary says, 'In these times not used if somebody is really a homosexual,
but rather someone who is stupid or a loser'. Urban Dictionary, February 22: carthritis

VEGANGELICA · 02-22-2012, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skaltezon

Money For Nothing - Dire Straits

That's a great song. I remember watching the video when it came out.

I love that deep, gritty note that slides from high to low, such as at 1:15 and 1:23. That note has a lot of personality and I associate it only with this song. I also love the buildup at the beginning of the song and the satisfying thudding of the drums, which are recorded very well.

Finally, I like the meaning of the song, which is sung from the perspective of blue collar electronics salesmen who have disdain for rock star "work" since the salesmen are doing *real* work (practical, physical, repetitive labor without fame or fortune), yet they also feel envious of the rock stars and express their envy and frustration (with their own lives) by putting them down.

Since rock stars are singing the song, this makes Dire Straits' actual perspective on the salesmen's view of themselves difficult to pin down, based on the song. Do Dire Straits agree somewhat that rock stars aren't doing real work? Are they sympathetic with the salesmen's viewpoint?

After reading Song Meanings at Songfacts about what Dire Straits frontman says about the song, I think Knopfler's view is that rock stars are doing real work and the electronics salesman is making ignorant statements.

I agree with the electronics salesman, though.

I don't view being a rock star as real work (even though it is paid), assuming the musicians like being musicians and think it is fun.

Quote:

Originally Posted by skaltezon

In this context 'faggot' doesn't mean 'homosexual'. To the sweat-laborer characters singing the song,
it means a prettyboy rock star who seems to get everything the easy way.

I agree. The word "***got" doesn't mean the salesman thinks the rock star is gay, but rather the salesman thinks the rock star is a prettyboy who seems to get everything the easy way, just like you say.

However, the word "***got" as a slur originated because of homophobia and so can be perceived as derogatory toward gay people and as perpetuating discrimination against gay people whenever it used as a putdown, even if the speaker doesn't intend the word to be a putdown of homosexuality.

I read that in 2010 this song became embroiled in arguments over free speech because of its use of the word "***got," according to this website:

Quote:

Money For Nothing by Dire Straits Songfacts
"Money for Nothing" Song Banned from Radio

"25 years after the song's release it was banned from public broadcast in Canada after one person complained about it being homophobic. The original version included a description of a singer as 'that little ***got with the earring and the make-up" plus two other uses of the word "***got,' although a cleaned-up edition was made available, Oz-FM in Newfoundland played the first edition in February 2010 at 9:15 at night. The result was a single complaint and the Canadian Broadcast Standards Council ruled that the unedited version of the song was unacceptable for air play on Canadian radio stations because it 'refers to sexual orientation in a derogatory way.'

"On August 31, 2011 ... the Canadian Broadcast Standards Council put an end to the ban and allowed individual radio stations to once again decide for themselves whether to play the classic rock tune."

I was surprised that a Canadian organization would be so quick to limit free speech.

skaltezon · 02-22-2012, 09:15 AM

.

A Well-Respected Man (1965) - The Kinks

Quote:

Originally Posted by VEGANGELICA

The word "faggot" as a slur originated because of homophobia and so can be perceived as derogatory toward gay people and as perpetuating discrimination against gay people whenever it used as a putdown, even if the speaker doesn't intend the word to be a putdown of homosexuality.

I disagree about the origin. English is a fluid language where context is often all-important.
And 'fag' or 'faggot' has never been exclusively a homosexual slur.

Quote:

And he likes his own backyard,
And he likes his fags the best,
'Cause he's better than the rest,
And his own sweat smells the best . . .

[from The Kinks' 'A Well-Respected Man']

.

FETCHER. · 02-22-2012, 09:35 AM

I watched Kevin and Perry: Go Large not long ago, so I've been listening to some songs from that.

Engine · 02-22-2012, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skaltezon

In this context 'faggot' doesn't mean 'homosexual'. To the sweat-laborer characters singing the song,
it means a prettyboy rock star who seems to get everything the easy way.

I wasn't saying that I think the laborer characters in the song believe that the prettyboy rock stars are actually gay. In fact, the laborers are also jealous of how these prettyboys get "their chicks for free".

However, I believe that the slur stems from homophobia in general and that homophobia was more socially acceptable in 1985 partially because AIDS was a big fear, a mysterious plague that was often blamed on gay men (perhaps by the very laborers in the song). Just a theory.

The reason this case is striking is that, for whatever reason, I don't think any big pop radio hits today will have the word "faggot" repeated in a verse.