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Originally Posted by Lord Larehip
I disagree. Unless you're referring to the skinheads but I saw them beating up whites far more than I saw them beating up anyone else. Punk is very anti-racist. Can't say about metal for certain but the majority of metalheads are not racially motivated. I have friends that are punks and friends that are metalheads and I would say they are more critical of each other than either faction is towards blacks. Metal is more ambivalent towards race but punk is outwardly anti-racist. The very first hardcore band was black.
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Your referring to one philosophy of punk, punk is not defined by one political ideology, there is left wing punk, there is right wing punk, there is unbiased and non political punk. The New York hardcore scene had very different social values than California punk scene.
I never said punk or metal was racist, but I implied that particularly during the 80's, bigotry in the punk & metal scene were commonplace amongst many fans, if not some of the bands themselves, it wasn't the paradise of diversity many people like to romanticize it as.
The fact remains that punk and metal were and still are primarily white subculture musical genres. Bad Brains was not the first hardcore band, the first official hardcore release is usually cited as D.O.A.'s hardcore 81. They toured the east coast and had an impact on bands like Minor Threat.
One black band amongst a sea of white bands does not make a diverse musical scene regardless of anti racist factions in punk.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Larehip
There are huge numbers of white kids into rap and hip-hop.
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Yes of course there is, rap in the late 80's was the new punk, but it was punk for those people who were not white, and continues to be the musical choice for many non white migrants. If...I believe you did at some point...state that rap sucks, you are essentially telling a whole generation of African Americans that there culture is garbage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Larehip
Green Day couldn't hold a candle to a real punk band. The other bands you mention also did their share of lowering the bar. None of them were exactly Mozart, Stravinsky, Miles or Bird. Every after-school band I played in in high school did "Train Kept A-Rollin'" a la Aerosmith (who ripped off the Yarbirds version) but none of us ever did it like Tiny Bradshaw and couldn't if we had wanted to. It was far too complex. It's incredible how much you have to know about your instrument to play jazz and (real) R&B. Until I took up double bass, I had no idea. The more you learn, the more you realize there is to know. It seems like there's no end in sight.
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Fair enough but to my knowledge Tiny Bradshaw never had a number 1 hit record, you can correct me if I am wrong. As far as pop music goes, the talent gap between Buddy Holly and Pink Floyd is arguable. The talent gap between Pink Floyd and Green Day is largely noticeable.