Trollheart

I'm perfectly prepared to offer an olive branch, as long as it doesn't get rammed up my ----! I don't like Ignoring (with a big I) anyone, and am quite happy to take Hermione/Sansa Stark/whatever off Ignore and try to engage more in topics with her BUT I won't be anyone's doormat. I don't like confrontation; I'm a quiet person by nature and just want peace in my life but you can only push me so far, and these things go both ways.

If my experiment works, great, but if I immediately, or quickly, begin getting snide comments, one-word answers, GIFs, memes or outright insults again then I'll expect one of two things to happen: 1) the behaviour should be and must be stamped down upon hard and without mercy. If I were insulting someone I would expect the same treatment, so it's not fair that certain people get more and more and more rope till they eventually hang themselves. I'm not saying ban on the first insult or whatever, but a warning should be issued, and if that warning is not heeded then a ban could follow.

My own personal experience with this particular member has been that I've felt like I was more or less fighting my own battle against her, while others --- mods --- let it go on and I don't know why. Maybe they thought it was funny, or not as serious as I felt it to be. Maybe they felt I deserved it, or had encouraged it in some way, and to be fair once or twice I had. But when someone completely out of the blue tells you to eff off when you weren't even communicating with them, I think that's where I have to draw the line. Oh yeah, option 2: I'll just put her back on Ignore.

I'm not asking anyone to take my side but if someone is being verbally bullied and the conversation is descending into insults, tirades and swearwords, then I think it's time for someone to take action. As I say, I'm prepared to make the first move, in this instance, but if my efforts fall on deaf ears I would appreciate some backup, or I'll just judge the thing as a failure and go back to the way I am now. I'm not asking for anyone to side WITH me AGAINST anyone, but I do feel that when a line is crossed then the mods should be swift to step in, particularly with someone who has had this problem before.

Like most people here, I don't want drama. If I want drama I'll watch TV. I just want to talk to people and discuss things, and if someone doesn't agree with me that's great: everyone has their opinion and I respect it, but they have to respect mine. If we can get to that point, then I think a lot of the fights and drama could be avoided.

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Trollheart: Signature-free since April 2018

Burning Down

This thread is not for singling out individual members just because they might be guilty of perpetuating drama or trolling people or whatever. It's for ways on how to curb the drama in the Lounge and get more music discussion happening.

Trollheart

Possibly approached that badly but those members have already been mentioned; I wasn't the first to refer to her and saying "a certain member" would be pointless really, as everyone knows who I'm talking about. But I would argue that the problem isn't just with the lounge; some members will almost follow others around into any thread they're in and hassle them. What I simply suggested was faster reaction to insults being cast or personal attacks. There is definitely too much leeway allowed in some cases, virtually none in others, and I think this hurts the perception of the place. When you're faced with a rule that says "no personal attacks" and someone attacks you personally and gets away with it, and keeps getting away with it, that makes a mockery of the rules and definitely instigates a sort of one-rule-for-them-another-for-us mentality, whether it's intended or not. It's like that old thing, "oh it's just so-and-so, that's how he/she is" and people get away with something that nobody else would.

I remember once I said something I shouldn't have and next time I logged on I discovered I was banned. No warning, no nothing. Gone for I think two days. Deservedly so too, but that sort of punishment should be meted out regardless of who the member is. If it gets to a point where one member or a group of members can basically say what they like, while another gets kicked for either responding or making similar comments, it shows a sense of unfair treatment.

I just think the drama would be less if people knew they were playing with fire. Attack someone once, and you get warned, second time you're banned. That needs to happen across the board, not based on who a member is or isn't. And I think that's all very relevant to the discussion here; I'm not trying to blacken anyone's name or get back at anyone. My post merely said (in my typical longwinded way) that I was willing to let bygones be bygones, but not be walked on. That was all. I think a more zero-tolerance policy with personal attacks would show people the mods are serious about stamping this sort of thing out. Am I wrong? Is it wrong to say I'll try but I expect the other party to try too? Is this a bad example to give to others? I didn't think it was personally.

You know, you give people an inch they'll take a foot, and next thing you know you ain't got a leg to stand on!

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Trollheart: Signature-free since April 2018

Urban Hat€monger ?

That's what we do though.
The problem arises when you have to draw the line of when criticism of a member becomes abuse of a member and it seems everybody's opinion on this differs.

Let's say is Lisnaholic (because he's the least likeliest to do it) is constantly on your case all the time criticising everything you do on a regular basis. He's being irritating & rude and he's singling you out but he's not being abusive.
One day you get sick of this and say 'You're being an idiot, leave me alone' and he reports the post claiming you attacked him

If I infract or ban you I get the response 'Why is this person allowed to keep getting away with doing this'.

If I infract or ban him I get the response 'I was just making a point, he called me an idiot he should be getting punished.'

I do it to both of you I hear both these things. So no matter what the moderator does it's always the wrong thing in the eyes of the people involved.

That's the reality of what's going on here and it's happening more & more, and that's the kind thing that people need to moderate themselves over.

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Trollheart

I totally understand how hard it is to do that, but I would just suggest some, if you will, redline issues that should be made clear are not acceptable. I know you can tell someone to **** off in many ways, some joking some not, but when you get constant abuse for every post you respond to from one particular member I think that member needs to be warned that this is not acceptable.

I'm not asking that anyone be wrapped in cotton wool, but the other side of the argument is that if you let it go on to see how it will develop then it can turn into something nasty. I know personally a line like "cut it out you two" or "watch it" from a mod in the middle of a heated debate would warn me to tone it back, though I am now actively trying to keep my temper (which would be laughable if you knew me in real life; I'm the most mild-mannered, quiet person you could meet!) and not be baited by certain posts, and when I go too far I've never been afraid to apologise.

Anyway, thanks for responding Urban and I actually disagree with the need for new mods. I think you all do a very tough job and the drama here can't be laid exclusively at your feet. New management as it were might have a cooling effect for some short time, but soon enough it would be a case of carry on as before and meet the new boss, same as the old boss. As many have pointed out, it's members who need to change, all of us, not mods. Or at least, not only mods.

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Trollheart: Signature-free since April 2018

WWWP

Ironic thread is ironic.

People were hella mean to me when I first joined - I had mods tell me to go away and not come back. But did I listen? No. Because it's the internet. People are mean on the internet, it's come to be expected. Whether or not that's acceptable is beside the point, but those who want to stay and contribute will. I've been on forums far more malicious than this but no matter where I go PEOPLE WHO WANT TO DISCUSS MUSIC WILL DISCUSS MUSIC - DISCUSSION FINDS A WAY.

I don't think that we are particularly unwelcoming. If a group of people were standing around in real life talking about music and some dude with an MCR shirt walked up and was like "hi guys I'm new here" we would absolutely not be expected to accept him into the group without question - he has to prove himself worthy of joining the discussion (by worthy, of course, I mean he has to hold his own in conversation). Maybe that's a ****ed up way of looking at it but like I said, if people want to discuss music they'll discuss music. If you don't like the drama that happens in the lounge, don't read the lounge posts. Ffs.

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#DEMODFROWNLAND
#TERMLIMITSFORMODERATORS

GuitarBizarre

So much this. *WAY* too much is being made of how "mean" we are to newbies. We really aren't.

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Dr_Rez

Wise mans quote.












But seriously I do not think we treat new members that badly. It isnt like they should be given loads of respect...they have not earned it. Do you give loads of respect and your heart to a stranger...hell no they have to earn it.

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WWWP

WWWP for Mod 2013

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#DEMODFROWNLAND
#TERMLIMITSFORMODERATORS

FETCHER.

I've read through this whole thread now and I agree with most points, that the lounge is definitely taking the limelight away from the music forums.

I do however think a lack of new members affects me (personally). I only have maybe 4 members here I can discuss music with and it gets pretty boring after a while because their main interests don't lie within Electronica music. So new members hanging around would mean more people who listen to a similar type of music as me.

I think that the cliques on musicbanter are pretty damaging to the forum, I don't think that arguments through discussion are necessarily bad for the forum at all, I find that it's the random nasty jibes that members like to throw around that are particularly damaging to this place. I've been here 4 years and I don't know where to look when it happens, nevermind someone who's just signed up.

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