I'm not really sure Xiu Xiu belongs to any of the categories of music that this thread is about. So maybe that might be a stumbling block for you right there.

It seems to me that he/she has problems with any music that is a bit more experimental in one way or another.

As a old good freind richard stockwell once said to me on the subject of why we like this kind of music, he simply said that our souls where in tune to this type of music, i listin to radio and tv crap and think how the f@#k can anyone like this crap, and the reason is because people who listin to that crap listin to it because they are told to listin to it because if it's on the radio or tv it must be good? people like that have no soul and no originality and no balls to venture through to another way of hearing yourself and the world around you.

I personally think that Industrial in it's original ideology wanted to be the complete antithesis of Rock.

If anything it could be compared to free form Jazz in that the purpose was to break down traditional structures and reassemble them as it sees fit.

I think the problem with Industrial as a tag is that Rock and Metal has become synonymous with it due to bands assimilating the often cacophonous nature of Industrial music and that the essence of Industrial music has since become very distorted.

If you listen to Einsturzende Neubauten's album Kollaps it is easy to equate it to Rock music due to the pummeling nature of the sounds they created but I certainly think that the whole idea behind it was to be diametrically opposed to that sort of music.

Some subgenres of Industrial music are pretty rock influenced, yeah. Coldwave, or "machine rock" being the prime example. Bands like Chemlab and 16 Volt.

16 Volt are a weird band like that, because some songs will be pretty heavy, good songs to play live, and some will be very minimalistic and electronic; the kind DJs could easily play in clubs.

i could not agree with jackhammer more

i think in the beginning of "industrial" the concept was to create something new that was not influenced at all by anything music wise....especially rock.....and its there in the earlier bands ....i mean Throbbing Gristle is by far much more influenced by ABBA and 60s Psychedelic pop much more than traditional "rock"....i heard an interview with Gen not to long ago whwere he states how upset the four of them were becoming because within their own experiment they were being pinned as being one certain way....which he said they were that way....i think it was nihilistic...but there was much more complex layers to what they were doing.....

and yeah when i listen to Kollaps....which is actually pretty often....although there is obvious use of traditional "rock" instruments.....ie guitar and bass....they are hardly used in the conventional way

i'm trying my hardest to think of whaen the typical "industrial" sound and rock music really started to blend so wel.....although i don't think its the first....its probably one of the most influential albums....but Ministry's The Land of rape and Honey seems to me to be a big change for the genre as a whole

Industrial is a very loose term and it's hard to pin down just what defines it, but it's one of those things where you KNOW something's Industrial when you hear it.

i have never personally considered foetus as an industrial band