Thelonious Monkey

Damn, sounds awesome.

The Batlord

*masturbates*

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Blank.

Oh! Me next?

Oriphiel

*Neward Thelman uses Shame*

*Batlord gains 10 hp*

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Raskolnikov

Any Vampire Weekend fans in the house? Their first album, which had great commercial and critical success, has a whole lot of classical influence (Chopin, Bach, etc). They incorporated plenty of "world" influences as well (afrobeat, ska). I wouldn't say either of those areas of music are "relevant" to a lot of people, but Vampire Weekend certainly is. (they're my favorite band so pardon my bias).

I also love this quote from the writer Susan Sontag: "And I’ve certainly learned something as a writer from the way Schnabel plays Beethoven, Glenn Gould plays Bach, and Mitsuko Uchida plays Mozart." That's from an interview in 1995, and Sontag is most certainly a "relevant" writer. Tolstoy wrote a whole story named after Beethoven's Kreutzer sonata, Nietzsche cited Beethoven and Wagner plenty in his philosophical works, which continue to influence the cultural elite. And how about Kubrick's use of classical music in his films? Strauss in 2001, Penderecki in The Shining, Beethoven in Clockwork Orange. Personally, since the US 2016 election, I've been fascinated by the music of Shostakovich (composed under Stalin's totalitarian regime) and Wagner's operas, particularly the ring cycle (horrifically appropriated by the Nazis, but beautiful, wildly sensual music nonetheless).

Besides that, classical concerts in the US, and moreso in Europe and Asia, continue to sell out audiences in huge concert halls. The Metropolitan Opera's livestream of Renee Fleming's final performance as the heroine in Strauss' opera "Der Rosenkavalier" was the highest-grossing in box offices a few weekends ago. The Elbphilarmonie, a MASSIVE and extremely expensive new concert hall in Germany, just recently opened as well. There's plenty of evidence for classical music's continued relevance.

But more important than any of that, I think, is if it's relevant to you personally. Does classical music (whether it's Bach, Beethoven, or Boulez) make you feel something? Do you get joy out of it? Does it clarify things for you? Is it interesting to you on a purely intellectual level? Do you get joy from playing it yourself, or watching your friends or loved ones play it? That, I think, is what matters, not simply whether it's enjoyed by a large enough swath of the population or gets enough playtime on the radio. Regardless of whether it's relevant, it exists, the recordings are out there, plenty of people listen to it, it continues to exert outsized influence on modern popular culture, and we ought to seek as much enjoyment as we can from it.

Frownland

I would agree that it's relevant (see my other posts in this thread), but I think this point is confounded a bit by how classical music (especially operas) are sort of a status symbol among many people. There are still plenty of fans in the audience, but I think that there's a significant number of people at those sold out shows who have no interest in the music whatsoever.

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Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth.

Raskolnikov

I'm sure you're right, but how would we know how many people are there to just show off/rub shoulders with the hoi polloi? Besides that, I think it's fine to have intentions besides pure musical enjoyment for going to a concert. To me, besides the music, it's thrilling just to watch the musicians play and communicate with each other and the audience. Theater folks with no interest in classical music may go to the opera just for the dramatic elements. Last year, the opera in my city put on Das Rheingold in an absolutely fascinating and innovative production, with much of the orchestra on stage, cyperpunk-inspired costumes, etc. Not to mention, quite a relevant story for November 2016. All this to say, I don't think there's anything wrong with people having different reasons for going to live performances of classical music, so long as they aren't there to disrupt the experience of other people. I actually think it's kind of great that people can get so many different things out of a classical music performance than just the music itself. The halls are often beautiful, and for me, even being in the presence of the performance of a Beethoven symphony or the like makes me feel connected to a long, long cultural tradition. Even if I were deaf, I would probably still enjoy going to the symphony just for that reason.

Frownland

BUT THEY'RE POSEURS!

As childish as that sounds, I do actually kind of have a problem with people going to concerts just to be associated with the wealthy. It somewhat dilutes the concert experience and connects an unnecessary power distance to the genre that I think would be better done away with.

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Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth.

Raskolnikov

Is this something you've seen a lot of, or you know people who do this? I have a hard time imagining people spending money on orchestra tickets and sitting still for two hours just to be associated with the wealthier folks in the audience. I worked as an usher for a while for the orchestra in my city, which is quite accessible to people of all class backgrounds, but I've never observed anyone coming to a concert just for that reason. And if they did, I'm sure they got more out of it than a chance to be in the presence of the 1%. I'm just curious as to where you've seen people doing that, or how you'd identify it if they were.

Frownland

It's a pretty common place for people to go dress up, be nice, and feel classy for a night. I've had workmates (I work in the mortgage industry in San Diego, so yuppies are abound) say they were going to to the orchestra and when I follow up with classical music discussion (which composer? what kind do you like?), they usually say something along the lines of "oh I just go because it's nice." These people are typically desperate slaves to social custom and would break their fingers if it was the socially correct/propelling thing to do.

I actually think it's becoming less common the more we move away from classical music being exclusively for kings and royal elite, but it's still present.

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Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth.