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Old 03-18-2011, 06:54 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Also, if Joni is against people changing their names why doesn't she have a go at Jimi Hendrix who she is so impressed with? His name was not Jim i Hendrix. It was Johnny allen.
Also she has spoken favourably of Prince. So "Prince" was the purple ones authentic name? Later Prince became a Squigle. So that was more authentic???
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Old 03-18-2011, 07:40 AM   #12 (permalink)
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I don't find that at all convincing.
I always thought Joni was a strong person. But her husband wouldn't let her use her own name so she didn't????? Come on!!
HaHa ! Maybe she was a young, eager-to-please bride at the time !

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Also, if Joni is against people changing their names why doesn't she have a go at Jimi Hendrix who she is so impressed with? His name was not Jim i Hendrix. It was Johnny allen.
Also she has spoken favourably of Prince. So "Prince" was the purple ones authentic name? Later Prince became a Squigle. So that was more authentic???
That`s true, Moshe. There are so many artificially-created musical personas out there ( Bowie and Beefheart also spring to mind ) that it`s pretty unfair to pick on Dylan.
Didn`t know that about Hendrix, BTW.

Read more: http://www.musicbanter.com/country-f...#ixzz1GxFa9hA0

Last edited by Lisnaholic; 03-18-2011 at 07:51 AM.
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Old 03-18-2011, 08:50 AM   #13 (permalink)
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HaHa ! Maybe she was a young, eager-to-please bride at the time !



That`s true, Moshe. There are so many artificially-created musical personas out there ( Bowie and Beefheart also spring to mind ) that it`s pretty unfair to pick on Dylan.
Didn`t know that about Hendrix, BTW.

Read more: http://www.musicbanter.com/country-f...#ixzz1GxFa9hA0
My one on Hendrix was partly unfair. Hendrix is his real last name but he changed his first name.

I think she's just feeling peeved at Dylan. I know he is not always great in his dealings with people.

As far as Joni Mitchell's songs are concerned, I respect her a great deal, as I do Dylan.

Dylans' voice is a different matter & it changes over a number of albums. Listen to "Nashville Skyline", "New Morning" & "Self portrait" & his voice is mostly quite clear & pleasant
On other albums it is quite raspy
I don't know if that is what Joni was reffering to when she reffered to his "fake" voice.

What do you think of Dylans more recent material, by which I mean the last couple of decades??

To me Dylans' best album was "Desire"- just such a beautiful sound. Much of Dylan s' later material left me cold
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Old 03-18-2011, 01:42 PM   #14 (permalink)
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At best it can be said that Bob Dylan did initially model his entire musical style and persona after Woody Guthrie, but that was a very long time ago. His music has since grown to become very much original to himself. He was responsible for writing some of the most amazing folk music the world will ever know and a career as long and musically diverse as his has been could never be attributed solely to the folk singer whom he obsessed over when he was a teenager.

Yeah, he changed his last name to Dylan as inspired by Dylan Thomas, no big deal. People in the entertainment industry do that all the time. I don't know what inspired Joni to badmouth Bob, but I think she's very wrong on all counts.
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Old 03-18-2011, 04:25 PM   #15 (permalink)
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According to Rambling Jack Elliot, who was the original Woody Guthrie immitator, Dylan hung about him all the time during his early days in NYC, observing his mannerisms & singing style closely. Elliots style had similarly been closely copied from Woody & as Woody was laying in hospital, Dylan copied from Elliot(according to Elliot!)

On the subject of Dylan, does anyone recall a rather dodgy charechter called AJ Weberman (sp?) who was a self styled "Dylanologist" & whose main means of research was going through Dylans' garbage?
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Old 03-19-2011, 08:54 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Dylans' voice is a different matter & it changes over a number of albums. Listen to "Nashville Skyline", "New Morning" & "Self portrait" & his voice is mostly quite clear & pleasant
On other albums it is quite raspy
I don't know if that is what Joni was reffering to when she reffered to his "fake" voice.
What do you think of Dylans more recent material, by which I mean the last couple of decades??
To me Dylans' best album was "Desire"- just such a beautiful sound. Much of Dylan s' later material left me cold
Not really surprising that Dylan`s voice has become more raspy after forty-odd years of singing, so I can`t see why anyone would call that fake.
Yes, absolutely; Desire, Blood On The Tracks and Street Legal are the albums I never tire of. As you say, a beautiful sound, with the violin on Desire, and some of his very best lyrics in those haunting, epic story-songs. So I was disappointed too by some of his later albums. I thought he was returning to form with Oh Mercy and Love And Theft, but the albums of the last two decades never reach the impossibly high standard that he set in his prime.

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Yeah, he changed his last name to Dylan as inspired by Dylan Thomas, no big deal. People in the entertainment industry do that all the time. I don't know what inspired Joni to badmouth Bob, but I think she's very wrong on all counts.
I agree about the name changing. In fact I think it`s pretty commendable to name yourself after some strange Welsh poet because you admire his work so much.

And how about Joni`s "Madonna = Nero" remark ? No-one is commenting on that !

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On the subject of Dylan, does anyone recall a rather dodgy charechter called AJ Weberman (sp?) who was a self styled "Dylanologist" & whose main means of research was going through Dylans' garbage?
Yes, I`d forgotten about reading articles by/about AJ Weberman in the music press years ago! Thanks.
Dylan really hated him, I think, - understandable if you imagine someone going through your trashbin and writing about it in the newspapers. That`s very invasive. Didn`t he also do a lot of analysis of Bob`s lyrics ? He counted up how many times Bob used certain words, like "death", and tried to explain what Dylan "really meant" by them.

Finally, not to be too one-sided, how about Joni Mitchell`s best albums ? My candidate is Blue from 1971; a collection of beautiful, honest songs in which Joni strikes a very intimate note. Aha ! Maybe this is why Bob is "fake" by comparison !
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Old 03-19-2011, 09:26 AM   #17 (permalink)
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I used to read AJ Webermans' articles on Dylan in the underground press as the time (seventees) when I was a teenage hippy. I recall an article in which he "analized" "The Boxer", the Paul Simon song Dylan covered on "Self Portrait". He supposedly had revelations into Dylans' charechter from that!
I had a look on the web last night & he is still at it, but wackier than ever.
Interprets a more recent Dylan song I am unfamiliar with to "show" it as proving Dylan to be a Holocaust denier!
This was on Under A Blood red Sky & I found it hard from the bits of lyric Weber was quoting if it in any way said what he claimed. I'll have to check with the original lyric.
He then went on to "prove" that Dylan hates black people by a truly bizarre interpretaion of the lyrics to "Blowin' In The Wind".


Anyway, here is a link
DYLANOLOGY - THE STUDY OF A JEWISH RACIST

I wouldn't give any value to Webermans' interpretations. Weberman claims he does research for the Jewish Defence Organization.
I hope his research is more coherent than what he puts out on Dylan
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Old 03-19-2011, 09:53 AM   #18 (permalink)
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I could not find anything to back up Webermans' claim that Dylan had written anti-Zionist lyrics or Holocaust denial lyrics.
On the contrary, "Neighbourhood Bully" is a strong defence of Israel.
As to AJ Weberman, I am hardly surprised Dylan is peeved off with him & he could probably sue him for libel or whatever.
In any case, Weberman appears crazier than ever & damn near incomprehensible
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Old 03-19-2011, 02:01 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Also, if Joni is against people changing their names why doesn't she have a go at Jimi Hendrix who she is so impressed with? His name was not Jim i Hendrix. It was Johnny allen.
Also she has spoken favourably of Prince. So "Prince" was the purple ones authentic name? Later Prince became a Squigle. So that was more authentic???
Actually, yes it is. His real name is Prince Rogers Nelson.
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Old 03-19-2011, 04:34 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Actually, yes it is. His real name is Prince Rogers Nelson.
Yes, but never a Squigle???
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