WWWP

But he’s one dude shouting into a void - who exactly is being infected by ideas?

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#DEMODFROWNLAND
#TERMLIMITSFORMODERATORS

jadis

[QUOTE=elphenor;2236435]Simone de Beauvoir is not Molly Wollstonecraft lmao

Wollstonecraft spoke the Enlightment language of universal rights. The philosophical background that informed Beauvoir's signature line (from Durkheim to her husband) was not available in the late 18th century. No one in the 19th century could've written that line.

At this point I have no idea what you think I'm saying. I made the uncontroversial point that the word "gender" had a completely different import in the radical feminism of the 1970s than it does today. Perhaps it would be more accurate to say that it has accrued the aditional meaning of "innermost identity"* that has nothing to do with the social constructivist earlier usage. The 1970s meaning of the word has not dissapeared, it is still used in that way by some, including by TRAs who can use this meaning interchangeably with "inner identity", oblivious to any contradiction.

* I'm not interested in the caption, just in what the person in the video is saying.

Kathleen Stock lists four different meanings of "gender" we use interchangeably. Her book is really really good and clear on that and other issues.

Anyway why did you say "hundreds" of years? Why that order of magnitude?

elphenor

thanks for clarifying that those are, in fact, 2 different people

I responded to the quoted section of your post where you assert that 20th Century feminism was about the rejection of feminine stereotypes

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Just another marketing ploy

elphenor

in the 19th Century the defining cause of feminism was suffrage

it was necessary to attack the docile role of women and to ask them to assert themselves like men

Here you have the (important) idea that someone is made a woman by their oppression, and should seek to escape from that

there were detractors from this idea almost as early as it was formed because it devalues femininity

but especially by the 70s it was disputed

this is relevant to the broader conversation here because it is now the belief of (reasonable) people that it's perfectly valid to be a feminine woman however you feel like expressing that

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Just another marketing ploy

jadis

I replied by saying that feminism of the era of Voltaire, Rousseau and the French Revolution is not that of post-WW2 Beauvoir.

"Stereotype" is not an idea that had meaning for "Molly Wollstonecraft". The word itself was coined much later, it's a very 20th century idea.

jadis

Back to what this thread is intended for, monitoring the latest developments and headlines in the UK gender wars.

A couple of doozies from the Daily Mail

The sex offenders who commit crimes as men before transitioning into women: The faces of dangerous crooks who 'switched gender' when faced with the prospect of prison

Trans charity accused of urging parents to send 'bullying' letters to school management if they question pupil's gender identity


And from our friends at the Torygraph

Boarding schools allow trans pupils to sleep in dorms of their preferred gender

jadis

Four-year-old boy allowed to join school as a girl is no Grimm fairytale but a real-life nightmare


This thread represents a dispassionate aggregation of the news on this very interesting topic and far be it from me to editorialize, but the idea that four-year-olds can have a "gender identity", whatever the fuсk that means, strikes me as a bit dodgy, if I'm completely honest.

jadis

Some breathtaking developments in UK's gender war. Watch this space.

jadis

The Cass Review... not everyone's a fan by the sound of it