Rishi Sunak says 'a man is a man and a woman is a woman'

jadis · 10-06-2023, 04:37 PM

It's a genuinely fascinating moment in world politics when the prime minister of Britain feels compelled to weigh in on our species' sexual dimorphism.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5kQ...TheIndependent

The wee fella's stance on this contentious topic contrasts with the rhetoric of some of the other players in UK politics, including Ed Davey of the Lib Dems. Scottish leader Nicola Sturgeon was forced to step down earlier this year, with many citing her policies on the trans issue as a major factor. For Labour's Keir Starmer, dropping the party's commitment to self-ID was another way in which to differentiate himself from his predecessor, the more radical Jeremy Corbyn.

I am fascinated with gender politics in general, and in the UK and Ireland in particular for several reasons. Unlike in the States, the positions on the trans issue don't quite map onto the left-right divide in the same predictable fashion. Literally all the advances made by trans activism were achieved under conservative governments, while a lot of the pushback came from grassroots feminist groups. Much more than the US, it's a political culture with a longstanding tradition of labor unionism, where radical politics were never confined to a few urban centers (let's just say that there are good reasons why E.P. Thompson's masterpiece wasn't entitled The Making of the American Working Class) and feminist activism is a fascinating part of that story.

I think I'm relatively familiar with the discussions: I've been getting my news mostly from The Guardian for as long as I've had a smartphone. First of all, because Canadian media is a joke. Second of all, because I've always liked British culture. And not least, because The Guardian's excellent coverage has set it apart from the lying US media during things like the Snowden leaks (and apparently during the Iraq war, though that was before my news consuming days).

But I don't live there and would welcome the opportunity to learn from UK-based users.

So... What do you think about Rishi's statement? Or Starmer's change of direction from Jezza? Or the Twitter meme about "terf island"? Or Sam Smith's ongoing struggles with gender norms?

All together now:

Gender on the streets of London
Gender on the streets of Birmingham
I wonder to myself
"Could life ever be sane again?"

Tristan_Geoff · 10-06-2023, 10:47 PM

wow what a bs sensational video. right wingers often cite bullying as a factor when they literally aren't creating a culture of harm and bigotry that leads to real people's deaths. You are not allowed to make a judgement on whether people are valid or not to be alive especially as someone who does not experience the sweeping hatred the LGBT community does. This issue has been politicized when it really comes down to lobby money from churches that want to stay pure to their roots and the fact that what harm does it do to cishets? They are literally scared of us and the fact that we understand life in a much broader scope than poltliics will ever account for. Well guess what, transgenderism has been around before any fvcking church existed. And it will outlive any country or politician, the fact that we are who we are should not be up for debate. People deserve empathy and the biggest issues in the world right now are being avoided, it's a carrot on a stick how much politics has become centered on the "LGBTQ issue". Things like rapidly advancing climate change, housing, healthcare, etc are all things that people are dying over daily, this only adds to the carnage. It's no coincidence either that those enacting change are more often than not queer as ****, they want us silenced and dead.

jadis · 10-07-2023, 02:53 AM

But that's the thing, we're not talking about US conservatives or about anyone who hates gender nonconfirming people. It's a different conversation where, barring a few extremists obviously, all sides agree that everyone has the right to live without discrimination, harassment and violence, and to express themselves as they wish.

Many of the most vocal critics of things like gender self-ID in the UK are lesbian feminists.

Their critique extends to the political demands made by the trans activism movement, not anyone's personal identity or inclination.

Again, literally all the advances made by trans activism in the UK were achieved under conservative governments, while a lot of the pushback came from grassroots feminist groups.

Tristan_Geoff · 10-07-2023, 03:12 AM

well yeah TERFs are full of **** what's new? doesn't cover all feminism it's just the dumb offshoot of it

jadis · 10-07-2023, 03:31 AM

That there are many currents in feminism and tensions between them is a known fact. But I wouldn't dismiss as an "offshoot" what appears to be a rather mainstream position in a country where feminism has a remarkably rich and long history.

Neither would I call someone like Kathleen Stock "dumb". She is not.

Synthgirl · 10-07-2023, 06:06 AM

Quote:

Gender on the streets of London
Gender on the streets of Birmingham
I wonder to myself
"Could life ever be sane again?"

This is such a hilarious thing to post for someone whose life is literally not affected by the way other people identify. The people whose lives have gone insane are ours.

Tristan_Geoff · 10-07-2023, 06:31 AM

the woke mob is trying to make us all trans /s

it costs 0 monies to just go about your life and not make others lives worse

jadis · 10-07-2023, 06:58 AM

Was intended as a funny-cause-it's-so-obviously-stupid type of joke to lighten things up. You know the song it's taking off on?

No one's life is affected by another's "identity". As I may have said a couple of dozens time on the infamous cis is a slur thread. Political claims made on behalf on this or that identity, on the other hand, affect us all.

jadis · 10-08-2023, 06:20 AM

Keir Starmer is so problematic that he insists on using the wrong pronouns for Israel!

https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/stat...47160299037086

Jezza would've never misgendered the Jews like that, while making excuses for the Islamist murderers he calls "friends".

jadis · 10-09-2023, 07:13 AM

Forever charmed by the British pronunciation of "cock"

https://twitter.com/Wommando/status/1711113169068761588

(This is happening outside the annual conference of the Labour party in Liverpool)

10-06-2023, 04:37 PM	#1 (permalink)
jadis Music Addict Join Date: Jun 2021 Location: dont ask Posts: 1,232	Rishi Sunak says 'a man is a man and a woman is a woman' It's a genuinely fascinating moment in world politics when the prime minister of Britain feels compelled to weigh in on our species' sexual dimorphism. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5kQ...TheIndependent The wee fella's stance on this contentious topic contrasts with the rhetoric of some of the other players in UK politics, including Ed Davey of the Lib Dems. Scottish leader Nicola Sturgeon was forced to step down earlier this year, with many citing her policies on the trans issue as a major factor. For Labour's Keir Starmer, dropping the party's commitment to self-ID was another way in which to differentiate himself from his predecessor, the more radical Jeremy Corbyn. I am fascinated with gender politics in general, and in the UK and Ireland in particular for several reasons. Unlike in the States, the positions on the trans issue don't quite map onto the left-right divide in the same predictable fashion. Literally all the advances made by trans activism were achieved under conservative governments, while a lot of the pushback came from grassroots feminist groups. Much more than the US, it's a political culture with a longstanding tradition of labor unionism, where radical politics were never confined to a few urban centers (let's just say that there are good reasons why E.P. Thompson's masterpiece wasn't entitled The Making of the American Working Class) and feminist activism is a fascinating part of that story. I think I'm relatively familiar with the discussions: I've been getting my news mostly from The Guardian for as long as I've had a smartphone. First of all, because Canadian media is a joke. Second of all, because I've always liked British culture. And not least, because The Guardian's excellent coverage has set it apart from the lying US media during things like the Snowden leaks (and apparently during the Iraq war, though that was before my news consuming days). But I don't live there and would welcome the opportunity to learn from UK-based users. So... What do you think about Rishi's statement? Or Starmer's change of direction from Jezza? Or the Twitter meme about "terf island"? Or Sam Smith's ongoing struggles with gender norms? All together now: Gender on the streets of London Gender on the streets of Birmingham I wonder to myself "Could life ever be sane again?"

10-07-2023, 02:53 AM	#3 (permalink)
jadis Music Addict Join Date: Jun 2021 Location: dont ask Posts: 1,232	But that's the thing, we're not talking about US conservatives or about anyone who hates gender nonconfirming people. It's a different conversation where, barring a few extremists obviously, all sides agree that everyone has the right to live without discrimination, harassment and violence, and to express themselves as they wish. Many of the most vocal critics of things like gender self-ID in the UK are lesbian feminists. Their critique extends to the political demands made by the trans activism movement, not anyone's personal identity or inclination. Again, literally all the advances made by trans activism in the UK were achieved under conservative governments, while a lot of the pushback came from grassroots feminist groups.

10-07-2023, 03:31 AM	#5 (permalink)
jadis Music Addict Join Date: Jun 2021 Location: dont ask Posts: 1,232	That there are many currents in feminism and tensions between them is a known fact. But I wouldn't dismiss as an "offshoot" what appears to be a rather mainstream position in a country where feminism has a remarkably rich and long history. Neither would I call someone like Kathleen Stock "dumb". She is not.

10-07-2023, 06:58 AM	#8 (permalink)
jadis Music Addict Join Date: Jun 2021 Location: dont ask Posts: 1,232	Was intended as a funny-cause-it's-so-obviously-stupid type of joke to lighten things up. You know the song it's taking off on? No one's life is affected by another's "identity". As I may have said a couple of dozens time on the infamous cis is a slur thread. Political claims made on behalf on this or that identity, on the other hand, affect us all.

10-08-2023, 06:20 AM	#9 (permalink)
jadis Music Addict Join Date: Jun 2021 Location: dont ask Posts: 1,232	Keir Starmer is so problematic that he insists on using the wrong pronouns for Israel! https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/stat...47160299037086 Jezza would've never misgendered the Jews like that, while making excuses for the Islamist murderers he calls "friends".

10-09-2023, 07:13 AM	#10 (permalink)
jadis Music Addict Join Date: Jun 2021 Location: dont ask Posts: 1,232	Forever charmed by the British pronunciation of "cock" https://twitter.com/Wommando/status/1711113169068761588 (This is happening outside the annual conference of the Labour party in Liverpool)