The Official Iraq War thread (country, dance, funk, rock)

[boo boo]

That was my counter because it says something about the way you justify your opinions.

"If a bunch of musicians say it, it must be true."

[sleepy jack]

Actually me calling bush a failure was completely my own opinion, where you got that musicians thing from I don't know. I was just stating that fact bashing our own President is the status quo says alot about how good of a job he's doing.

[boo boo]

Originally Posted by Crowquill

I was just stating that fact bashing our own President is the status quo says alot about how good of a job he's doing.

Toby Keith has gone platinum 21 times.

[sleepy jack]

And how much did his album with the pro-bush songs sell compared to American Idiot?

[boo boo]

Thats different, American Idiot is popular because it was made by a very popular band, who were popular long before they got political. Keith however has always been no butts about his conservative views. That and there are several other popular artists with conservative views, Charlie Daniels, ZZ Top, Lynyrd Skynyrd, Fear, Ted Nugent, Skrewdriver, etc. Just because there may be a few more on the left than right is insiginificant. Being in the majority dosen't make you right, if it does, that would mean Christians are more right than most people.

Besides, just because a lot of people likes a certain political artist dosen't mean that all of that artists fans share his politics.

Just look at ClashWho..... He loves The Clash.

[sleepy jack]

I don't keep up with country radio, but Toby Keith has been popular for awhile too if I remember right, and that disgusting Red White and Blue song was everywhere, country fans are conservative for the most part (look what happened with the dixie chicks) so naturally they'd all enjoy it and request it alot. But look at all the artists who came out with anti-bush songs, Eminem, Green Day, Foo Fighters, the Ataris, Sleater-Kinney, Yellowcard, and how many Rock Against Bush compilations have there been now, two or three? I don't understand how you can say being anti-bush doesn't sell.

[boo boo]

Originally Posted by Crowquill

I don't keep up with country radio, but Toby Keith has been popular for awhile too if I remember right, and that disgusting Red White and Blue song was everywhere, country fans are conservative for the most part (look what happened with the dixie chicks) so naturally they'd all enjoy it and request it alot. But look at all the artists who came out with anti-bush songs, Eminem, Green Day, Foo Fighters, the Ataris, Sleater-Kinney, Yellowcard, and how many Rock Against Bush compilations have there been now, two or three? I don't understand how you can say being anti-bush doesn't sell.

All rock bands, do you not see a pattern here?

[sleepy jack]

Originally Posted by boo boo

All rock bands, do you not see a pattern here?

Did you not see Eminem? What about Immortal Technique? or Mos Def?

[Sparky]

Originally Posted by boo boo

Toby Keith has gone platinum 21 times.

Justice will be served
And the battle will rage
This big dog will fight
When you rattle his cage
And you’ll be sorry that you messed with
The U.S. of A.
`Cause we`ll put a boot in your ass
It`s the American way


<3 toby keith

[sleepy jack]

I already said we went to Iraq under false pretenses, thats pretty much a fact. It dosen't change the fact that taking Saddam out of power was a good thing.

Taking Saddam out of power wasn't why we went into Iraq. Weapons programs was not why we went into Iraq. al-Queda links is not why we went into Iraq. We went into Iraq so gain control of natural resources. We've been doing it for years, justifying our imperialism with so many righteous excuses, but really invading to control the hot-item resources of the year. In the 1850's with Mexico it was cotton, now it's petroleum. Our war in Iraq is nothing new, and our moral-obligation reasoning is nothing new. In the 21st century our obligation is to spread democracy, in the 20th and 19th centuries it was White-Man's burden. Only the terminology has changed.

Secondly, even if our reasoning, after all the other reasons we were given failed, was to remove Saddam from power, that is none of our business.

Actually we do care about it, because if we didn't we would have pulled out a long ass freaking time ago, if it was just for Oil, why still be there now, why continue to risk ourselves and burn a sh*tload of money if we already got what we came for? Why not just build rigs, kill everybody that gets in the way and make bail, if we are truly so selfish.

Actually, we don't care. We don't have any intention of pulling out, ever. The US is constructing the biggest foreign embassy in the world, directly in Bahgdad. We want to be in control of Iraq, and the government will almost certainly get away with it. Also you mention burning shitloads of money. George Bush, Dick Cheney, and Karl Rove don't care. Are you kidding me? You think this war has driven them personally into debt? You think Haliburton is losing money because of this war. YOU and ME have to pay for this, not the politicians in Washington.

I also wouldn't compare Saddam to the Prime Minister of Iran from over 50 years ago, the scenarios are pretty different.

Boy, you've got bad logic. Just because I mention Saddam and Muhhamed Mossadeq in the same post doesn't mean they are being compared. The reason I mentioned Mohhamed Mossadeq was to demonstrate the fact that the US does not support democracies, we crush them. Which kinda contradicts the reasons that YOU seem to be using as justification for this war. We do not foster democracies, we crush them. No comparison was being made between Saddam and Mossadeq. Mossadeq was a democratically elected leader, and we overthrew him because he had plans to nationalize his oil fields. Instead, we reinstated a dictatorship with a brutal Shah. Quit using your silly logic to refute points.

But Muslims don't do it as often, they take it much more literally, this is why Muslim extremism is such a big deal and while Christian extremism is just something to joke about on the Howard Stern show.

I don't know about you, but when I hear about fundamentalist Christians bombing abortions clinics, I don't let out a gut-busting laugh. Maybe you do, but not me.

Fine, lets let them build another theocratic police state, it will almost be like we were never there in the first place.

We don't have any intention of leaving, once again. We will do the same thing with Iraq that the UK did with the Middle East after WW1. We will install an Arab facade. A group of US-controlled Arab leaders who will give Iraqi's the impression they are being self-governed. Do you know anything about T.E Lawrence? Arab facade was, I believe, the exact word used by the British to describe their policy in the Middle East.

Or if we sincerely view them as a threat. With Iraq it was both, what we were told about their alledged involvement with 9/11 and WMDs were generally not true. But they were harboring terrorists, before the war and especially after, some with the intention of coming here. Like I said, I don't care what our true reasons were.

You don't care what our true reasons were? You don't care that we sent thousands of Americans to die for a lie? Tell their mothers that. I bet they care. Also, the USA harbors terrorists, we have no evidence however, that Saddam did.

can tell them that they shouldn't establish a goverment that enforces their beliefs on others, every nation that is a Muslim theocratic state is a horrible place to be, try living as a woman in Saudi Arabia for a year.

Yeah, Saudi Arabia is a terrible place to live. But they're our buddies! Why? Well, they have rich citizens and the largest oil fields in the Middle East of course.

So, we shouldn't deal with Islamist nations because of something that Christians did.... Over 700 years ago?

We shouldn't be in charge of 'dealing' with any nations. Kuwait and Iran, two countries which have been invaded by, and border Iraq, said they did not feel threatened by them whatsoever. Yet the US, the greatest military force on the planet dozens of thousands of miles away, view them as an imminent threat? You've got to have a propogandameister to get Americans to believe that. I guess you fell for it.

Be realistic please. Religion isnt gonna be "wished away". Its here and a part of life. And I have no problem with Religion existing as long as it dosen't control the goverment.

Religion existing accounts for millions of deaths every century, and the religious WANT it to control the government. They aren't satisfied with just believing, they want it to be policy that you believe. Hell, GW senior says he doesn't think that atheists should be allowed citizenship. Religion DOES control the government. Who do you think is the Republicans biggest constituency? Evangelicals. Republicans appeal to them, they love their fundie fan-base.

Compare that to just leaving, making a big mess and leaving THEM to clean it up. You think thats better?

How do you know what happens if we leave? It is already in the midst of a civil war, civilians are dying constantly, Americans are dying constantly, it really can't get much worse. Us pulling out, well, we don't know what'll happen. But we do know what happens if we stay, and it is certainly not any better.

Because we all know how well revolutions turn out.

Talk about horrible logic. Are you always this fallacious when it comes to arguing? I mean, you could at least have posted a picture of a bad revolutionary, you didn't even do that. You posted a picture of a man who wasn't even a part of the Bolshevik revolution. You should have mentioned the true revolutionaries, Lenin and Trotsky, both of whom were progressive-minded men who DESPISED Stalin and did everything in their power to keep him OUT of power. You don't care about that though, you just want to make factually incorrect, logically ridiculous points, right?

How about a nice list of all those great revolutionaries who brought about change for their people.

Simon Bolivar
George Washington
Thomas Jefferson
Miguel Hidalgo
Patrick Henry
Jose de San Martin
Fransisco de Miranda
Toussainte L'Ouverturre
Jose Maria Morrelos
Bernardo O'Higgins
Antonio Jose de Sucre
Juan Pablo Duarte
Jose Bonifacio
Jose Miguel Carrera
Spartacus
Manuel Rodriguez
Maximillian Robespierre
Pedro I
Leon Trotsky
Mahatma Ghandi
Nelson Mandela
Tupac Katari
T. E. Lawrence
Sitting Bull
Qui Jin
Osceola
Nat Turner
Francois Mackandel

I could continue, and continue, and continue. Point is, you argue with terrible logic, like, the worst.