The unwillingness to support your stances only makes that fact apply to a longer period of history.

The only real restraint on these communes is the taxes they pay and certain basic laws they still have to follow. Which is basically just protection money. In a world without nation States you would be tasked with funding your own protection. That's why armies exist. As soon as people discovered the ability to make a surplus, they subsequently discovered the need to pay armed soliders to protect it.

I'm not necessarily against socialism. I'm against anarchism. In my view govts are a necessary evil.

Forgive my disbelief but I gave you a link and you didn't bat an eye

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....,200_QL40_.jpg

This is a good read.

jwb, the love it or leave it argument is pretty tired

it’s not that clever

That’s not true.

But anyway, hate America? Join a commune! Maybe I should join a cult. Or the klan. Or ISIS. Or set up a tent in the woods. Or walk across India begging for alms. Or starve myself in protest.

I'm different in that while I don't have faith in anarchism I view force and economic coercion as inherently dehumanizing in a way that makes human life a form of misery. If my boss can tell me what to do on threat of economic hardship and my only recourse is to turn to some other boss who hopefully threatens me with lesser economic hardship or to become a boss who threatens someone else with economic hardship then that is amoral and should be fought. The alternative is accepting psychological slavery.

I am batting an eye honestly. I just didn't see that group when I was honestly looking. They might be better than the alternatives I saw that amounted to "We're just starting a group" or "We're a squat hoping to not collapse in the next year." I'll give them a look and hope that they look good and that my antipathy is moved.

Do you have a more informed view of the problems facing communes? I'd like for you to say something other than nuh uh.

I didn't just tell you to get out cause you hate America. I was asking why, if things like punching a clock are so unbearable to you, you don't maybe consider some available alternatives. It's not meant to be original or clever. It's just a basic question you dodge cause your political beliefs are probably more of a fashion statement than anything else.


well I could be wrong. What did I leave out?

****, call me crazy but some force is needed. For as long as their have been surpluses, there have been bands of raiders trying to take it.

Society is built on the security provided by men with weapons monopolizing force.

And personally I'm not trying to go gazelle hunting to avoid this.

For me? It's ****ing hard. Just falling into a job and normal **** sucks but it's super easy because that is a "service" provided to me that I don't have to expend all that much effort to "achieve". I just have to apply for a job (which is a pretty miserable and mentally exhausting thing for me to do tbh) and then go to that job until they fire me. Alternatives are not provided for and I would have to go well out of my way to achieve them and there is absolutely no guarantee those alternatives won't at best fail or be straight up stomped out by society as it tries to leave me with only the "alternative" to fall in line. The entire reason I want an alternative is because I am easily wearied and introverted and want nothing to do with all of this rat race ****. To escape it I essentially must perform rate race squared and have faith that the alternatives are even viable. I am at war with society just to not be a member of it and society will expend whatever energy it needs to wear me down to the point that I just accept a job and stop trying.

Well that's an honest ****ing answer bruh

But you need to take on a little adversity instead of shying away from it imo. You've just been stuck in the same place so long you're complacent. It's 100 times more fulfilling in the long run to try something out, fail, and learn some **** in the process than it is to stay stagnate.

It goes all the way back to westward expansion and the economic system that grew around it. Any efforts to exist outside that framework is going to be marginalized. The zine I linked to talks about that. Plus books about people who’ve tried to live that way.

If you think you’re going to be allowed to use quality soil to fund an alternative without constant harassment and meddling you’re kidding yourself. You’re going up against the entire capitalist power structure and America doesn’t take kindly to even tiny perceived threats.

Like I said at the get-go it cannot exist in conjunction with private property. The very nature of ownership forbids that sort of democracy. Since I already stated that the rest of the conversation is void. You might as well be asking why I don’t colonize Venus.