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Old 09-08-2019, 05:07 PM   #18941 (permalink)
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My point was that the game will continue with or without us. The moral imperative to end the evil empire loses its edge. The humanitarian angle diminishes as it becomes clear that whether we act or don't act, catastrophe can occur. Only the times we don't act we don't get the direct blame for it so there's that. But all that's really left in the end is naked self interest.
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Old 09-08-2019, 05:10 PM   #18942 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elphenor View Post
trying to strip the sovereignty of the Hong Kong people?
IIRC they don't have actual sovereignty.

Just a different economic system and different rights. It was honestly a stupid thing to think you could give Hong Kong to a country like China and expect them not to eventually bring them under their authoritarian heel.
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Old 09-08-2019, 05:24 PM   #18943 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elphenor View Post
trying to strip the sovereignty of the Hong Kong people?
So let me guess. There’s a stupid debate about what imperialism is going on.
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Old 09-08-2019, 05:29 PM   #18944 (permalink)
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Lol. He puts me on ignore and then asks for clues as to what I'm talking about.

Come on, OH. Let's be men about this. I have no fundamental beef with you, we just disagree on some stuff.
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Old 09-08-2019, 05:31 PM   #18945 (permalink)
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they don't have it legally but they have it morally in this circumstance
I agree but sovereignty is kinda a specific term IMO so I wasn't sure if you were aware they're technically part of China.
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Old 09-08-2019, 05:35 PM   #18946 (permalink)
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Nah, to me it depends on what is at stake.

In this case we stand more to lose than to gain. But there are cases where it would be worthwhile.

E.g. if we would've dealt with the Nazis sooner than we did.

In general though it's usually better for us not to send troops.
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Old 09-08-2019, 05:45 PM   #18947 (permalink)
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Well it has one thing in common: self interest. If you see a real threat emerging then it's in your self interest to kill it in the crib.

If you're talking about invading a country like Iraq for their oil I think it's quite evident that wasn't actually in our best interest.
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Old 09-08-2019, 05:57 PM   #18948 (permalink)
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I agree with that.
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Old 09-09-2019, 03:30 AM   #18949 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwb View Post
Lol. He puts me on ignore and then asks for clues as to what I'm talking about.

Come on, OH. Let's be men about this. I have no fundamental beef with you, we just disagree on some stuff.
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Old 09-09-2019, 06:30 AM   #18950 (permalink)
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often the only hope smaller countries have in the face of imperialism is that the people within the more powerful country grow a sense of morality in opposition to their own government

Vietnam being a kind of example of this
on second thought I was being overly cynical
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