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Old 11-04-2019, 09:18 PM   #19381 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Lucem Ferre View Post
Letting you maintain control of what you do with your body even if it's self harm is less harm than taking your freedom which would have a huge negative impact on your mental health.
Other than the 'Live Free or Die' state, seat belts are the law in the US. Too many people flying through windshields raises my health care costs and auto insurance rates.

**** those people's 'self harm' instincts.
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Old 11-04-2019, 09:19 PM   #19382 (permalink)
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So our morality is more evolved?
In context of our history, yes, but we still tend to use ****ty justifications and cultural norms to hide us from uncomfortable truths about our own morality in this country.
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Lucem, you're right, it's silly to talk about what I would or wouldn't do IRL. Glad you brought it up. Maybe you should write an instrumental about it. I recommend a piano paired with a clarinet. With ambient sounds of you hanging from your shower curtain you ****ing failure.

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Old 11-04-2019, 09:23 PM   #19383 (permalink)
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youre making the hypothetical pointless by introducing a 3rd option

everything being as it is, would it not be a net benefit to kill drunk drivers?
No, you're just presenting a false dichotomy to prove a point. My third option is exactly why your point is bull****.
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Lucem, you're right, it's silly to talk about what I would or wouldn't do IRL. Glad you brought it up. Maybe you should write an instrumental about it. I recommend a piano paired with a clarinet. With ambient sounds of you hanging from your shower curtain you ****ing failure.

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Old 11-04-2019, 09:26 PM   #19384 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Lucem Ferre View Post
In context of our history, yes, but we still tend to use ****ty justifications and cultural norms to hide us from uncomfortable truths about our own morality in this country.
So given that we've had the same amount of time to evolve

And as you say we naturally evolve towards promoting less suffering

Why are we more evolved? Why is stoning adulterers still prevalent? Burning witches? Genital mutilation? What is the purpose for these rules?
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Old 11-04-2019, 09:27 PM   #19385 (permalink)
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well it's a thought exp to express where morality is subjective
****ty example.

Let's say we had the option to kill a child to save a hundred people, is that better?

If we can't find a way to save all then it's the child. It's morally grey, because nothing in life is simple, but it still does more help than harm.

Well, depending on who the hundred people are.
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Lucem, you're right, it's silly to talk about what I would or wouldn't do IRL. Glad you brought it up. Maybe you should write an instrumental about it. I recommend a piano paired with a clarinet. With ambient sounds of you hanging from your shower curtain you ****ing failure.

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Old 11-04-2019, 09:34 PM   #19386 (permalink)
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So given that we've had the same amount of time to evolve

And as you say we naturally evolve towards promoting less suffering

Why are we more evolved? Why is stoning adulterers still prevalent? Burning witches? Genital mutilation? What is the purpose for these rules?
Traditions, dictatorships, desperation, etc. Various reasons.
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Lucem, you're right, it's silly to talk about what I would or wouldn't do IRL. Glad you brought it up. Maybe you should write an instrumental about it. I recommend a piano paired with a clarinet. With ambient sounds of you hanging from your shower curtain you ****ing failure.

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Old 11-04-2019, 09:37 PM   #19387 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Lucem Ferre View Post
****ty example.

Let's say we had the option to kill a child to save a hundred people, is that better?

If we can't find a way to save all then it's the child. It's morally grey, because nothing in life is simple, but it still does more help than harm.

Well, depending on who the hundred people are.
if I see a homeless person walking down the street who is clearly suffering, and he has no family or friends to speak of, is it not a good thing for me to kill him swiftly and painlessly as possible?

I would be ending a lot of suffering, and causing little if no new suffering. So is it the right thing to do?
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Old 11-04-2019, 09:38 PM   #19388 (permalink)
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Traditions, dictatorships, desperation, etc. Various reasons.
so then there are other factors that influence morality beyond utilitarianism. So what exactly makes it the defining influence?
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Old 11-04-2019, 09:41 PM   #19389 (permalink)
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I disagree that you just kill the child
Nah, **** this idea that children are more valuable humans.

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if we assume the 100 people are going to naturally die if we don't
It'd most likely be a terrorist situation where we're given a choice. If it's naturally, then maybe that's different but you really should consider killing the kid. The argument is the kid doesn't get the chance to live while the people do. We don't know the age of the people and just because you're an adult doesn't mean you don't still have life to live. The kid won't know what he's missing and there's a high chance that he doesn't like his life when he finally gets to live it.

Then again, of course we need to consider the wants of those affected. Lets say majority of the 100 people would rather die to keep the kid alive. Then lets kill the 100 people. Vice versa as well.
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Lucem, you're right, it's silly to talk about what I would or wouldn't do IRL. Glad you brought it up. Maybe you should write an instrumental about it. I recommend a piano paired with a clarinet. With ambient sounds of you hanging from your shower curtain you ****ing failure.

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Old 11-04-2019, 09:42 PM   #19390 (permalink)
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so then there are other factors that influence morality beyond utilitarianism. So what exactly makes it the defining influence?
Just because it's a social norm or it's a rule doesn't mean it's moral even if they use that word to describe it.
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Lucem, you're right, it's silly to talk about what I would or wouldn't do IRL. Glad you brought it up. Maybe you should write an instrumental about it. I recommend a piano paired with a clarinet. With ambient sounds of you hanging from your shower curtain you ****ing failure.

Art Is Dead. Buy My ****.
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