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Old 07-21-2019, 09:45 PM   #19611 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by OccultHawk View Post
We’re all complicit.
The unwillingness to support your stances only makes that fact apply to a longer period of history.
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Old 07-21-2019, 09:45 PM   #19612 (permalink)
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1. I do not have faith in anarcho communism. I simply do not think that looking at it from the viewpoint of overwhelming capitalism gives a reasonable view of it when it is applied in tiny pockets within capitalist societies. I am a political nihilist first and foremost, but I give the socialists and anarchists my unreserved moral support. I say if we can't move to some form of socialism then **** it let's go for broke and let society crumble while trying because the alternative is why we have school shootings.
The only real restraint on these communes is the taxes they pay and certain basic laws they still have to follow. Which is basically just protection money. In a world without nation States you would be tasked with funding your own protection. That's why armies exist. As soon as people discovered the ability to make a surplus, they subsequently discovered the need to pay armed soliders to protect it.

I'm not necessarily against socialism. I'm against anarchism. In my view govts are a necessary evil.

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2. I would love to join a commune and ignore the rest of society for as long as it existed. I just see mostly either shortlived communes or ones where some form of expertise is required that I do not have.
Forgive my disbelief but I gave you a link and you didn't bat an eye
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Old 07-21-2019, 09:55 PM   #19613 (permalink)
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This is a good read.

jwb, the love it or leave it argument is pretty tired

it’s not that clever

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The only real restraint in these communes is the taxes they pay.
That’s not true.

But anyway, hate America? Join a commune! Maybe I should join a cult. Or the klan. Or ISIS. Or set up a tent in the woods. Or walk across India begging for alms. Or starve myself in protest.
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Old 07-21-2019, 09:56 PM   #19614 (permalink)
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The only real restraint on these communes is the taxes they pay and certain basic laws they still have to follow. Which is basically just protection money. In a world without nation States you would be tasked with funding your own protection. That's why armies exist. As soon as people discovered the ability to make a surplus, they subsequently discovered the need to pay armed soliders to protect it.

I'm not necessarily against socialism. I'm against anarchism. In my view govts are a necessary evil.
I'm different in that while I don't have faith in anarchism I view force and economic coercion as inherently dehumanizing in a way that makes human life a form of misery. If my boss can tell me what to do on threat of economic hardship and my only recourse is to turn to some other boss who hopefully threatens me with lesser economic hardship or to become a boss who threatens someone else with economic hardship then that is amoral and should be fought. The alternative is accepting psychological slavery.

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Forgive my disbelief but I gave you a link and you didn't bat an eye
I am batting an eye honestly. I just didn't see that group when I was honestly looking. They might be better than the alternatives I saw that amounted to "We're just starting a group" or "We're a squat hoping to not collapse in the next year." I'll give them a look and hope that they look good and that my antipathy is moved.
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There is only one bright spot and that is the growing habit of disgruntled men of dynamiting factories and power-stations; I hope that, encouraged now as ‘patriotism’, may remain a habit! But it won’t do any good, if it is not universal.
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Old 07-21-2019, 09:58 PM   #19615 (permalink)
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That’s not true.
Do you have a more informed view of the problems facing communes? I'd like for you to say something other than nuh uh.
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Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien
There is only one bright spot and that is the growing habit of disgruntled men of dynamiting factories and power-stations; I hope that, encouraged now as ‘patriotism’, may remain a habit! But it won’t do any good, if it is not universal.
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Old 07-21-2019, 10:02 PM   #19616 (permalink)
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This is a good read.

jwb, the love it or leave it argument is pretty tired

it’s not that clever
I didn't just tell you to get out cause you hate America. I was asking why, if things like punching a clock are so unbearable to you, you don't maybe consider some available alternatives. It's not meant to be original or clever. It's just a basic question you dodge cause your political beliefs are probably more of a fashion statement than anything else.


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That’s not true.
well I could be wrong. What did I leave out?
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Old 07-21-2019, 10:07 PM   #19617 (permalink)
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I'm different in that while I don't have faith in anarchism I view force and economic coercion as inherently dehumanizing in a way that makes human life a form of misery. If my boss can tell me what to do on threat of economic hardship and my only recourse is to turn to some other boss who hopefully threatens me with lesser economic hardship or to become a boss who threatens someone else with economic hardship then that is amoral and should be fought. The alternative is accepting psychological slavery.
****, call me crazy but some force is needed. For as long as their have been surpluses, there have been bands of raiders trying to take it.

Society is built on the security provided by men with weapons monopolizing force.

And personally I'm not trying to go gazelle hunting to avoid this.
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Old 07-21-2019, 10:09 PM   #19618 (permalink)
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I didn't just tell you to get out cause you hate America. I was asking why, if things like punching a clock are so unbearable to you, you don't maybe consider some available alternatives. It's not meant to be original or clever. It's just a basic question you dodge carrier your political beliefs are probably more of a fashion statement than anything else.
For me? It's ****ing hard. Just falling into a job and normal **** sucks but it's super easy because that is a "service" provided to me that I don't have to expend all that much effort to "achieve". I just have to apply for a job (which is a pretty miserable and mentally exhausting thing for me to do tbh) and then go to that job until they fire me. Alternatives are not provided for and I would have to go well out of my way to achieve them and there is absolutely no guarantee those alternatives won't at best fail or be straight up stomped out by society as it tries to leave me with only the "alternative" to fall in line. The entire reason I want an alternative is because I am easily wearied and introverted and want nothing to do with all of this rat race ****. To escape it I essentially must perform rate race squared and have faith that the alternatives are even viable. I am at war with society just to not be a member of it and society will expend whatever energy it needs to wear me down to the point that I just accept a job and stop trying.
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Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien
There is only one bright spot and that is the growing habit of disgruntled men of dynamiting factories and power-stations; I hope that, encouraged now as ‘patriotism’, may remain a habit! But it won’t do any good, if it is not universal.
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Old 07-21-2019, 10:13 PM   #19619 (permalink)
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Well that's an honest ****ing answer bruh

But you need to take on a little adversity instead of shying away from it imo. You've just been stuck in the same place so long you're complacent. It's 100 times more fulfilling in the long run to try something out, fail, and learn some **** in the process than it is to stay stagnate.
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Old 07-21-2019, 10:15 PM   #19620 (permalink)
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Do you have a more informed view of the problems facing communes? I'd like for you to say something other than nuh uh.
It goes all the way back to westward expansion and the economic system that grew around it. Any efforts to exist outside that framework is going to be marginalized. The zine I linked to talks about that. Plus books about people who’ve tried to live that way.

If you think you’re going to be allowed to use quality soil to fund an alternative without constant harassment and meddling you’re kidding yourself. You’re going up against the entire capitalist power structure and America doesn’t take kindly to even tiny perceived threats.

Like I said at the get-go it cannot exist in conjunction with private property. The very nature of ownership forbids that sort of democracy. Since I already stated that the rest of the conversation is void. You might as well be asking why I don’t colonize Venus.
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