The Wow I Can't Believe That News Story Thread

[jwb]

Originally Posted by The Batlord

Ah faux revolutionary LARP of MSNBC. I'm sorry if you think the Dems going a bit hard in the paint is the same thing as a fascist party who wants to ram through a Christian nationalist theocracy and edge themselves closer and closer to killing minorities then you've watched one too many movies where the love interest tells the hero not to kill the villain cause then they'll be just like them.

If you're worried about the fabric of society being destroyed then you might want to rip the bandaid off sooner rather than later before the problem gets worse. Arresting the Republicans in Congress who backed Stop the Steal and charging them with sedition is a hell of a step but it'll be a lot shorter a step than whatever will be necessary 5, 10, or 20 years from now.

Yeah well tbh my problem isn't even that you're suggesting the Dems go too hard it's that you won't even engage with the hypothetical surrounding your proposed solution. You just sorta shrug any suggestions of what the implications are off and resort back to waxing poetic about how dangerous the GOP is as if that justifies any and everything in response.

But I do think there's a pragmatic choice to make when considering whether you actually want to protect democracy (at least to the extent it currently exists). If such is your goal, then that goal does in some sense limit what you can do. If, on the other hand, you just want to destroy the GOP and take the reigns in a sort of one party state then that's a different approach where more authoritarian measures don't necessarily detract from or contradict with your broader goals.

Another thing to remember is it's really not just a few bad apples in Congress, it's like a sizable portion of the country that supported Jan 6 outright and an even larger portion that would've probably have gotten on board if it was successful. Clearly this divide which is growing poses a serious threat to the stability of the country but it's not at all clear to me what the best course of action is or even whether any goal to save the country should include this idea of saving the current system of democracy.

The idea that half the country are basically Nazis that can't be negotiated with means that giving these people rights and the ability to vote only poses a threat with no benefit.

But yeah, I do think it's obvious the Dems can potentially gain a lot of political leverage from this current situation if they play their cards right and that should include trying to nail at least Trump to the wall and anyone else they can get on actual charges. But to say they arrest anyone who is even perceived as being sympathetic or in support of Jan 6 is definitely drifting into a much more authoritarian direction that would very likely change the country in an unalterable manner.

[The Batlord]

The Republicans are the ones who put us in this place where the party either needs to be gutted or we just roll the dice and hope they never get enough power to push us over the brink, so if arresting a significant percentage of Rs in Congress requires extralegal action that couldn't be justified under normal circumstances then that's a decision the Republicans forced upon the rest of us. If this needs to end in Reconstruction 2.0 for swaths of the entire country then I say we should've done it right the first time.

[Guybrush]

Originally Posted by jwb

[...] it's not at all clear to me what the best course of action is or even whether any goal to save the country should include this idea of saving the current system of democracy.

Side note, but.

A big problem which is universal, but that I guess the US was particularly vulnerable to, is ofc the problem that a lot of people don't know what's real. Like in the discussions about selfishness, that itself creates an environment where people like Trump can weaponize lies in order to gain power. If more people had integrated some critical thinking skills in the way they use their brains daily, that might not have happened. His win wasn't huge, it might've tipped the votes. We'd all be less vulnerable to other nations' manipulations, like how Russia pumps out disinformation from their lies-factories. A usual pathology of these lies is to separate people into uses and thems and so destabilize and undermine nations and people's well-being.

So I don't know much about short term solutions in the US (though I do hope you get Trump for the dangerous criminal he is), but I do feel that if we want functional democracies in the future, then it is necessary that more people learn to separate fact from fiction. It'll promote policies and legislation based on reality and not how much adrenochrome the other politicians suck out of babies. Living in the same reality will help people unite instead of seeing eachother as problems or enemies.

So more / better quality schooling, teaching critical thinking philosophy and skills, anything that would help to counter the influence of religious / conspiracy thinking like regulating what social media companies are allowed to. Disinformation spreading on the internet also needs to be tamed.

[Trollheart]

Ah, God, Ireland really gets your goat, doesn't it?

[Guybrush]

Originally Posted by Trollheart

Ah, God, Ireland really gets your goat, doesn't it?

Nice to see that although they haven't abolished the animal cruelty part of the fair, they're at least making some effort into minimizing it. Very charming.

Perhaps time to consider getting a stuffed goat instead?

[Trollheart]

Ireland is the GOAT!

[Frownland]

Ja minorities don't matter.

[Frownland]

Author Salman Rushdie stabbed on lecture stage in New York

[SGR]

^ I saw that. I was thinking for some reason that Satanic Verses came out in the late '90s. Turns out, after checking, it was late '80s.

There's not many great metrics for quality writing, but I'd say if what you write ends up earning you assassination attempts, then you've definitely found success, at least in some way.

Hope Rushdie pulls though.

[Guybrush]

I dearly hope Salman Rushdie pulls through.

The fatwa has had other victims too. The translated words of Ayatollah Khomeini:

I inform all zealous Muslims of the world that the author of the book entitled The Satanic Verses — which has been compiled, printed and published in opposition to Islam, the Prophet, and the Qur'an — and all those involved in its publication who were aware of its content, are sentenced to death. I call on all zealous Muslims to execute them quickly, wherever they may be found, so that no one else will dare to insult the Muslim sanctities. God Willing, whoever is killed on this path is a martyr.

Here in Norway, this led to chief of the Satanic verses' publishing house getting shot three times outside his home in 1993. He fortunately pulled through.

I assume there may have been victims in other countries too.