No, the best way for evil to win is to trick good men into supporting them, thinking that they are doing something. They love when you fight windmills, instead of fighting them. Buying into their bipartisan system in any way, including voting, even if you vote against them, just makes them stronger.

There is not a single change that happens in this country that the rich and powerful don't allow to happen. Obama won because the top at that time wanted it to be so. Trump won because the top at that time wanted it to be so. Either way, regardless of which party wins, both parties benefit from keeping the populace functionally limited to two choices. And if everyone started voting third party, they would exploit that as well.

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Also, @DJ, shaming people for not voting accomplishes nothing. Most of them care about the world, they are simply disillusioned with the entirety of the current politcal system, i.e. why bother voting for one rich old guy over another when despite their differences all the candidates benefit tremendously from maintaining the current system far more than if they enacted real change in the power structure?

Insulting them is like making fun of someone for being fat; 90% of the time, it doesn't persuade them to try to fit your standards, it just makes them hate the world and become less likely to participate in it. You're just one more voice screaming at them to care about a system that doesn't care about them.

ftfy

No you didn't; you just ignored my question by changing it to suit your view of things. Nice one, Hawk. :rolleyes:

I don't understand where this belief in an all-powerful cabal of unified business interests that move swiftly, silently, and unilaterally to stamp out all forms of freedom comes from.

Is Merit not able to spew his ill-informed and regressive conspiracies without fear of arrest of censure? Are all of you not free to choose to vote or to stay home and internet warrior how the rest of us are sheep that will all die slaves?

How shortsighted must the government be that they developed and then essentially released for free the most comprehensive and easily accessible collection of information that has ever been imagined by man. How foolish that our omnipotent overlords allow us to discuss these ideas without having to operate behind impenetrable pseudonyms, carefully disguising our tracks for fear of being disappeared to a frozen gulag.

American Representative Democracy has flaws. But point to a better system. If you can't, then all of your bellyaching is self-pitying intellectual masturbation.

150 years ago, black people were enslaved.
60 years ago, black people couldn't sit at the front of the bus.
10 years ago homosexuals couldn't serve openly in the military.
5 years ago 20 million uninsured Americans were granted access to healthcare markets they could not previously afford.

Government created some of the these problems, but that's a reflection of the people that work there. Just like the people who worked to correct these problems.

I think most of you just hate other people.

Because not caring about the system is giving in to something you see as unjust. It's feckless, it's defeatist, and it surrenders one's moral standing to have any say in the system. This doesn't excuse its flaws. But it's throwing the baby out with the bathwater - and after we know the "baby" grows, improves, and slowly but surely has generated a greater amount of wealth, health, and freedom of personal action than almost anywhere else in the world.

@riseagainstrocks It's not a "cabal" or a conspiracy, because it's not secret. Money and politics go hand in hand. Whichever of the candidates that the establishment deems appropriate for us to choose from wins, the businesses backing those candidates are the real winners. If you think money isn't more important than the support of the people, then so be it, but I disagree.

All the morality in the world didn't end slavery in the U.S. It was only largely criticized and abolished after wealthy northerners figured out that doing so would destroy the south's economy, thus stripping them of their political power.

Yes, every now and then the people get something nice to keep us from rebelling. But in the end, real change only happens when the top figures out how to make a profit from progress.

But thanks for insulting us. Once again, screaming "WHY ARE YOU FAT?!" at a fat person fails to work.

Oh, and please don't reduce yourself to resorting to the "If you can't do it better, or find a better alternative, then shut up" argument. Reminds me of the guy that always gets butthurt when you don't like his favorite movie, and he tells you to try making a better one, as if people can't have opinions unless they jump through all the proper arbitrary hoops.

Enjoying these posts from Ori.

That presupposes a pure top-down model of social change. One that's simply not born out by the facts. Abolitionists existed in every social class. The Emancipation Proclamation had a political component sure, but so does buying one stamp over another.

I'm a cynical guy too, but this kind of cynicism isn't helpful. It also doesn't appear to be true. This kind of cynicism removes agency. It tells people, 'don't try, because the result are predetermined'. Truman defeated Dewey. Bush defeated Gore. Abortion rights were granted and preserved. The Civil Rights Act was passed. Clean Air, Clean Water, the Renewable Fuel Standard, the Environmental Protection Agency, NAFTA, NATO, etc etc etc. All of these things have made us safer, wealthier, and healthier. Has it been a straight line? No. Has the broad trend of history resulted in a better society? Yes. Has representative democracy been largely responsible for these gains? Also yes. Why? AGENCY.

I think part of this the media distortion about Washington D.C.'s importance. Hardly any governing worth doing emanates from Washington, and I say this as a liberal. It's about getting a speed bump in your home town, or keeping the local library open on Saturday. Hell, it's increasing the funding for your local library. I've volunteered on local and state election campaigns and have seen first hand the value of participating in the system, especially when it's local. Anecdotal to be sure, but everyone here is making sweeping statements about how voting is for fools. I feel obligated to point out the benefits of actually giving a damn.


If you're advocating for the rejection of representative democracy, it's incumbent on you to propose an alternative. Unless you're simply advocating for no government, in which case I'll stop replying to you.