I didn't say that changes don't happen. I said that changes only happen when the wealthy find a way to make a profit out of progress. How far did abolitionists get before wealthy northerners hopped on board to stick it to the south?

I also didn't say that democracy should be abolished. Just our bipartisan dynamic, which could easily be curbed by limiting the amount of money that can legally be stuffed into politician's pockets. Yet despite all the changes you mentioned, and how far we've come, isn't it funny that gigantic "political donations" are still legal, and that almost no candidates are against them?

I really want to believe you, and be as optimistic as you, but maybe my personal experiences have just made me too jaded.

Also, thanks for mentioning Bush v. Gore, when the winner of the popular vote lost. Edit: And also when ballot tampering became hilariously apparent.

I have to run to a meeting so I'll look at the rest of it after, but I knew this would get called out. It was part of my 'results aren't predetermined' bit.

I am in favor of repealing Citizens United by the way. Best way for this to happen is constant, unyielding political pressure from the common people, like you and I.

Thanks for engaging, always happy to have a friendly argument.

Ciao mate. Btw, I didn't say that people shouldn't try. By all means, fight for what you believe in. I just think that in the end, in our current political climate, the act of voting is less important than the art we create to affect others, and the way we treat others.

My answer is (the point of what I did) is that even though the things you fear about anarchism if it should materialize might be justified concerns (it wouldn't be a utopia) but from my vantage point what's already in place is many times more horrific. Most people don't agree or haven't really thought about it. There's an infinity of ain't gonna happens but nonetheless something will happen. Perhaps the continuation of the status quo. The destruction of the environment, nuclear war, or some other disaster. I have a less likely but more pleasant scenerio in my head where writers like Thoreau and Tolstoy became a standard moral compass an we make it through. Idealistic? Sure. But we got a gun to our head. I know this is a failure. I think the path we're on is so destructive that this whole way of living needs to be scraped.

This whole attitude is for the birds. People want to not vote and then sit back and be like "told you so nothing changes." The whole idea that the masses picked the wrong candidate isn't even accurate. The masses/majority are the the ones that don't even bother to participate. Yes, voting is only a small part of the process but it is still important when it comes to policy especially on the local level. You see changes much more on the local state level that will affect you much sooner than on national things.

I don't care about the fact that it seems like I am shaming them for not voting. They don't care about world like you claim they do. They are already so far gone in their apathy that it doesn't matter what I say. I understand feeling disenfranchised but doing nothing and complaining about changes happening to them when they could have at least tried pisses me off. The whole uprising of protest votes by not voting and voting third party is why we are stuck with Trump.

Thanks so much for voting dj.

Careful. Truth like that is frowned upon around here.

I just feel like there are certain actions that affect people and enact change more than participating in politics, such as creating art, or helping people. And shaming them for not voting hurts your cause more than it helps.

To be fair, when I became old enough, I did try to vote. Obama v.s. Romney. I was turned away at the polling station for not being "properly registered". In the last election, I was considering voting for Sanders, but after he got pushed out I didn't feel like picking between a pile of crap and a pile of vomit. Maybe third time will be the charm.

For centuries, Ireland was ruled from England. We had basically no rights and were subjects of the English monarch. The Famine came about largely because English landowners held all the power and could evict Irish workers if they couldn't pay rent, making them essentially slaves. If we hadn't gained our independence and obtained the right to govern ourselves we would probably still be under English rule.

As for the voting process, here it's not the same as your electoral college. Here, every single vote is counted, and it's infinitely possible to vote in some independent or local candidate into the government. Yes, we only have the three main parties, but the government is made up of the main party/parties and a coalition of independents, meaning that issues more important to the local candidates can be discussed. If nobody voted for these people, they would not be sitting in the Dail and power would rest entirely with the three main parties, which would not be good for anyone, other than them. Having independent candidates means that certain decisions can be blocked, certain issues forced through that otherwise would be ignored, or voted down.

In America we get to vote for which color suits our politicians wear. Thank God we get to govern ourselves.