Music Banter - The Wow I Can't Believe That News Story Thread

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Originally Posted by elphenor (Post 1882560)

I put all of what Occult said in the "we just don't know yet" category

Well we do know that we haven't seen or heard a peep.

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I have no idea about the maths but assuming it takes a few billion years at least to evolve to the point where your pollution is visible from space are there actually galaxies within an observable range that we can see in the time period that they are likely to exist and not, say a million years before they evolved that far?

If the Drake equation is correct there should be about 20,000 potentially observable civilizations in the Milky Way.

As far as other galaxies go we can see back for billions of years. There could be radio waves or other sorts of indicators of intelligence that's moving at light speed and still a million years away, yes. But the fact there's absolute silence (to our ears, admittedly) means, obviously, that there's no civilization that we've been able to detect from any time window.

Sagan would be disappointed but maybe not really that surprised. He described humanity as alligators with nuclear weapons.

And TH mentioned Hawking. Hawking is extraordinarily pessimistic about our ability to survive. He also thinks "finding" alien life would likely end up being very bad news. He has suggested that if there are other civilizations more advanced they probably have to good sense to stay as hidden as possible. He thinks putting information on the Voyager about how to find us was stupid. More and more our methods of electromagnetic means of communication are from point to point on earth and not broadcasting through space at light speed. Some theoretical physicists hypothesize that moving inward is the natural progression for intelligent species and explain it that way. But to me, none of these explanations satisfies the paradox. Not even one single outlier. You can't get around that conveniently.

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Originally Posted by OccultHawk (Post 1882587)

Well we do know that we haven't seen or heard a peep.

If the Drake equation is correct there should be about 20,000 potentially observable civilizations in the Milky Way.

As far as other galaxies go we can see back for billions of years. There could be radio waves or other sorts of indicators of intelligence that's moving at light speed and still a million years away, yes. But the fact there's absolute silence (to our ears, admittedly) means, obviously, that there's no civilization that we've been able to detect from any time window.

Sagan would be disappointed but maybe not really that surprised. He described humanity as alligators with nuclear weapons.

And TH mentioned Hawking. Hawking is extraordinarily pessimistic about our ability to survive. He also thinks "finding" alien life would likely end up being very bad news. He has suggested that if there are other civilizations more advanced they probably have to good sense to stay as hidden as possible. He thinks putting information on the Voyager about how to find us was stupid. More and more our methods of electromagnetic means of communication are from point to point on earth and not broadcasting through space at light speed. Some theoretical physicists hypothesize that moving inward is the natural progression for intelligent species and explain it that way. But to me, none of these explanations satisfies the paradox. Not even one single outlier. You can't get around that conveniently.

Scope.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/b8/d2...9a5e84d694.jpg

Say scope all you want. Radio waves are detectable like light from stars. There's not one alien civilization that wants to be detectable and is. There's not one that can overcome "scope". The vast distances don't explain it away. It explains the non-detection of life that either can't send signals or doesn't want to but it doesn't allow for those who can and do. We know for sure that there's no alien civilization with the desire and ability to communicate with us. That's what silence means. If life is able to technologically surpass where we're at now, by great measure even, it stands to reason that in at least one case there would be something we could detect but there isn't. If scope is the problem then the lack of technology to overcome it, even with the limitation of light speed, is also the problem. And that reinforces the theory that there's a certain technological threshold that always causes self-destruction.

I’ve thought about and read a lot about the Fermi paradox, and I still find it mind-blowing. One criticism I’ve read about the Drake equation is that in guessing how many Goldilocks planets there are it doesn’t take into account having a gas giant in the same solar system - Jupiter has saved us probably a ton of times from being pulverised by comets by acting as a huge gravity well. If you take that into account you can (conservatively) end up with only 2-3 instances of intelligent life per galaxy, in which case everyone is too far away to notice, unless they start building Dyson spheres or fusing together stars to make some sort of really Trippy architecture. If a much more advanced species ever comes into contact with us we’d better hope they are nothing like us - given the way we are with other species on this planet.

Dyson spheres are nice and all but there's a very good chance they are physically impossible to build, no matter how advanced you are.

The rare earth hypothesis considers many factors that are arguably ignored by the Drake equation. Jupiter is one of them. Recently, however, it has been argued that Jupiter's gravity hurls more debris at us than it absorbs.

Speaking of Dyson spheres, have you been following the news about Tabby's Star?

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Originally Posted by grindy (Post 1882648)

Dyson spheres are nice and all but there's a very good chance they are physically impossible to build, no matter how advanced you are.

Ringworld is still a fun book.

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You Are Not Hallucinating. A Hurricane Is Headed To Ireland

Holy ****.

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Originally Posted by OccultHawk (Post 1882645)

If life is able to technologically surpass where we're at now, by great measure even, it stands to reason that in at least one case there would be something we could detect but there isn't.

I just don't have that kind of faith. Why would our planet stand out? How can they differentiate our satellites out of infinitesimal plain ole meteors?

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If scope is the problem then the lack of technology to overcome it, even with the limitation of light speed, is also the problem.

Absolutely. However, even if that technology exists somewhere in the universe, that doesn't mean that it's been used to its fullest extent i.e. scanning the whole universe for life and stopping by to say what's up.

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Originally Posted by The Batlord (Post 1872901)

What the ****?

Death Metal Band Decapitated Arrested on Kidnapping Charges - Rolling Stone

I even own one of their albums, Organic Hallucinosis, which is pretty fecking sweet, so that was a weird headline to see.

Yeah, so they've been indicted.

All 4 Decapitated members formally charged with rape - Metal Hammer