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Old 01-02-2018, 05:41 PM   #9301 (permalink)
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Can we all agree that you do not have the right to someone else's labor, against their will? Yes or no?
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Old 01-02-2018, 05:42 PM   #9302 (permalink)
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It's not the only bakery, that's the point.

Not in this hypothetical scenario. What now?
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Old 01-02-2018, 05:43 PM   #9303 (permalink)
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[MERIT] you win: in the face of such intransigence and constantly moving the goalposts around, strawman arguments, flip-flopping and more that has just confused and frustrated the hell out of me, I give up. I'll leave you to the mercy of the man I have to admit is one of the best debaters on this forum. May you die honourably.
No, I don't win. I am just as frustrated as you are. And you can leave the brackets off my name when referring to me. Makes it easier for everyone.
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Old 01-02-2018, 05:48 PM   #9304 (permalink)
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Can we all agree that you do not have the right to someone else's labor, against their will? Yes or no?
Depends on the context. Random person on the street? No. Business that serves the public that you in turn pay for like any other customer? Absolutely. Making your services available to the public is a promise unto itself that businesses need to fulfill.Throw em in the gulag if they refuse.
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Old 01-02-2018, 05:48 PM   #9305 (permalink)
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Okay guys, we can do hypothetical scenarios out the wazoo, but we're getting nowhere. We can either agree to disagree that you are not entitled to the labor of another person against their will, or we can keep arguing. You're coming at it from a gender/sex rights POV and I'm coming from a basic civil liberties view.

I can bottom line this. THE BAKERY WAS WRONG FOR DENYING THE GAY COUPLE A WEDDING CAKE. But, it should be the bakery's right to make the call.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
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Old 01-02-2018, 05:49 PM   #9306 (permalink)
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What if someone shoplifts from your store? Do you have the right to deny them entry henceforth?
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Old 01-02-2018, 05:54 PM   #9307 (permalink)
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You're coming at it from a gender/sex rights POV and I'm coming from a basic civil liberties view.
The fact that you think this stance can only be held because someone supports LGBT rights only reveals how you formed your own opinion on the subject. My stance extends to everyone because that's how equal rights work, don't dismiss that because I also support LGBT rights.
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Old 01-02-2018, 05:54 PM   #9308 (permalink)
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What if someone shoplifts from your store? Do you have the right to deny them entry henceforth?
Yep. That would be denial based on someone's actions so it's not discrimination. How is that at all similar?
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Old 01-02-2018, 06:01 PM   #9309 (permalink)
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The fact that you think this stance can only be held because someone supports LGBT rights only reveals how you formed your own opinion on the subject. My stance extends to everyone because that's how equal rights work, don't dismiss that because I also support LGBT rights.
Well, the case is fucked up all around. It entails the federal government FORCING a citizen to perform labor AGAINST THEIR WILL AND AGAINST THEIR RELIGIOUS BELIEFS. We've got Fascism, Religion, Personal Liberties. All kinds of ethos in the mix.
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Old 01-02-2018, 06:02 PM   #9310 (permalink)
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Yep. That would be denial based on someone's actions so it's not discrimination. How is that at all similar?
Having gay sex is an action. The bakers don't condone it.
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